I loved REmake2 and RE7 but for different reasons.
REmake2 was almost everything I'd imagined a remake of one of my favorite graphically dated games would be; they stuck close enough to the story, fleshed out otherwise 2 dimensional characters like Kendo, they let me keep the old score lol, and it was the first time I'd actually played The 4th Survivor and Tofu. Of course it wasn't perfect but no game is.
I enjoyed RE7 not for the main character but because they experimented with the 1st person route which I do like in games, especially in which I use a gun. I like to look down the sites to take my shot, though I can see why people don't like this and I think there should've been an option to switch to 3rd person. But I digress. I loved all the Evil Dead references because I absolutely adore Bruce Campbell so... Yea. I also liked Lucas as a character.
Granted my reasons for liking RE7 were nowhere near as weighted as my reasons for liking REmake2, I did still enjoy the game.
As for the Resi 8 trailer, I am cautiously intrigued. Like I like before, it does heavily remind me of RE4 (which is where the caution comes in), but it wasn't the mountainous village of RE4 that made me dislike it. It was largely the story and characters that I literally didn't care about so there was no reason to be invested in the story. It can be a pretty game but that generally doesn't cut it for me (which is why I'm heavily skeptical about TLoU2, but that's a whole other thread). If Resi 8 takes a familiar surrounding like that in Resi 4 but injects an actual story with actual developed characters (I am already invested in Chris even if I don't particularly like him, so that's a start. And yes, one could argue that Leon was also a previously developed character but I'm kinda put off by pretty boys and stupid one liners.), I think I may actually enjoy it, and I really like the enemy designs that I saw in the trailer. Just a tad bit scared of the Executioner coming back but oh well, I'm all in it for the fear, it will be nice to have that back.
REmake2 was almost everything I'd imagined a remake of one of my favorite graphically dated games would be; they stuck close enough to the story, fleshed out otherwise 2 dimensional characters like Kendo, they let me keep the old score lol, and it was the first time I'd actually played The 4th Survivor and Tofu. Of course it wasn't perfect but no game is.
I enjoyed RE7 not for the main character but because they experimented with the 1st person route which I do like in games, especially in which I use a gun. I like to look down the sites to take my shot, though I can see why people don't like this and I think there should've been an option to switch to 3rd person. But I digress. I loved all the Evil Dead references because I absolutely adore Bruce Campbell so... Yea. I also liked Lucas as a character.
Granted my reasons for liking RE7 were nowhere near as weighted as my reasons for liking REmake2, I did still enjoy the game.
As for the Resi 8 trailer, I am cautiously intrigued. Like I like before, it does heavily remind me of RE4 (which is where the caution comes in), but it wasn't the mountainous village of RE4 that made me dislike it. It was largely the story and characters that I literally didn't care about so there was no reason to be invested in the story. It can be a pretty game but that generally doesn't cut it for me (which is why I'm heavily skeptical about TLoU2, but that's a whole other thread). If Resi 8 takes a familiar surrounding like that in Resi 4 but injects an actual story with actual developed characters (I am already invested in Chris even if I don't particularly like him, so that's a start. And yes, one could argue that Leon was also a previously developed character but I'm kinda put off by pretty boys and stupid one liners.), I think I may actually enjoy it, and I really like the enemy designs that I saw in the trailer. Just a tad bit scared of the Executioner coming back but oh well, I'm all in it for the fear, it will be nice to have that back.
Apparently Dusk Golem has stated that RE8 should be a mid-length game, not as short as REmake2 or R3make but also not as long as RE4 or 6... So hopefully this will quell game length fears, assuming of course that Dusk Golem is correct. It will also apparently be more open and encourage exploration which will cause actual gameplay time to vary.
DuskGolem has been probably 90% accurate thus far. He has my trust. But changes occur all the time in production. So I take all of his information a grain of salt. But I have high hopes for his information!
Same. While I do want to believe what he says, I also know nothing is really set in stone until the studio comes out and confirms and denies, and even in that case do you really ever know if they're putting our fires or creating hype? So I just go with the flow with cautious optimism.
I think it's funny that first person view is seen as a "big departure" when it was the original intention for RE1. The only reason we ever got 3rd person was crappy graphics lol. 7 felt like the RE they really wanted in the first place so it's exciting to see where they go here. Let's face it, as good as every game is, the whole series got out of hand when 2 tried to continue a story that gets bigger and bigger for an idea that started in a mansion. It's nice to see them gain composure lol.
Lots of games go through changes before they're finalized. Doing first-person 20 years after the game was established is a big departure regardless of whatever concepts they originally had over 20 years ago when Shinji Mikami was in charge of the series. All Capcom ever wanted was money, so I highly doubt Resident Evil 7 is Capcom's idea of what Resident Evil could have been when the only reason it's first-person was because of VR. I also don't get what you mean by the series getting out of hand because it originally took place in a mansion? Is the same thing not occurring now with a whole village?
The original concept was claustrophobic atmospheric fear. It was never even supposed to have a sequel. They went back to the drawing board for RE7 to figure out where they started because the whole series had gone a different direction (and as a result......6). I believe RE8 is what they would have done for the series if they hadn't been driven solely by what they thought people wanted. It was customers that wanted returning characters and 3rd person angles and whatnot, I definitely felt like I was playing a fleshed out version of RE1 when I played 7.
Again, concepts and what was delivered and established are not one the same, therefore, a radical change like a first-person perspective that changes the way you experience that claustrophobia and atmosphere is indeed a departure, regardless of where the idea came from. Also, one is a zombie game and the other isn't. So stripping down the identity of the series to claustrophobia and atmosphere as a way of making Resident Evil 7 fit in with the roots of the series is moot, especially when they both have very drastically different influences.
I think there is room for Spyder and Turo to be right in this instance. I despise first person horror games. And due to the limitations of the hardware at the time, we ended up getting the 3rd person view which launched the series in to horror stardom. The PS1 era games had so much personality and attention to detail because the third person view allowed us to see the character fitting the space. This wasn't OUR story. This was Chris and Jill's story. This was Leon and Claire's story.
However, fast forward to RE6 and we see the Capcom cash grab years where imitation of other popular games was about as original as they could be. They made a TON of money, but were losing fans in the process. RE7 was meant to bring horror back to the series and immerse the player in it. While more universally acclaimed compared to RE6, it still had a divisive nature. I still think first person is not ideal for the RE series. And you can say what you want about Ethan, but the atmosphere of RE7 was fantastic. And I hope that RE8 DESPITE the first person view can bring that atmosphere while adding depth to the characters and a plethora of enemies and area to explore. We can have the best of both worlds.
And IF we could have the option to switch to third person, I think RE8 could be amazing!
However, fast forward to RE6 and we see the Capcom cash grab years where imitation of other popular games was about as original as they could be. They made a TON of money, but were losing fans in the process. RE7 was meant to bring horror back to the series and immerse the player in it. While more universally acclaimed compared to RE6, it still had a divisive nature. I still think first person is not ideal for the RE series. And you can say what you want about Ethan, but the atmosphere of RE7 was fantastic. And I hope that RE8 DESPITE the first person view can bring that atmosphere while adding depth to the characters and a plethora of enemies and area to explore. We can have the best of both worlds.
And IF we could have the option to switch to third person, I think RE8 could be amazing!
The argument “that’s what they originally intended to do” doesn’t work for convincing people, who hate first person perspective, to like and accept any new installment of RE with that style. After dozens of third person games that have always appealed to fans (regardless of whether it was fixed cameras or over-the-shoulder) it will always be something that feels off for a lot of people that have followed this series.
Same goes for the argument “well they were always planning on killing their characters off and featuring new ones with each game”. The series didn’t exactly play out that way and, instead, created a fanbase that cares for their selected avatar and expects to see them return in some capacity within the main storyline.
Same goes for the argument “well they were always planning on killing their characters off and featuring new ones with each game”. The series didn’t exactly play out that way and, instead, created a fanbase that cares for their selected avatar and expects to see them return in some capacity within the main storyline.
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I can partially agree with Uniq and Bstar here.
I can totally understand going into a series that has always been presented in 3rd person and then being put off by a 1st person game. Everyone has their tastes, and some people just don't do 1st person. I don't like egg whites because their texture is weird. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with egg whites, but nothing you say can convince me that egg whites taste good.
On the other hand, I'll take Evil Dead for example. It was originally meant to be a scary movie but since everyone was so new to what they were doing it turned into the hammy masterpiece that we know today. Within The Woods, which was the short film by Raimi which was more along the intended idea was much more serious in tone and the new Evil Dead by Fede Alverez felt much more similar to Within the Woods. It wasn't Evil Dead as we've come to know it but I always did like Within the Woods, and so I really enjoyed Fede's version.
I can totally understand going into a series that has always been presented in 3rd person and then being put off by a 1st person game. Everyone has their tastes, and some people just don't do 1st person. I don't like egg whites because their texture is weird. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with egg whites, but nothing you say can convince me that egg whites taste good.
On the other hand, I'll take Evil Dead for example. It was originally meant to be a scary movie but since everyone was so new to what they were doing it turned into the hammy masterpiece that we know today. Within The Woods, which was the short film by Raimi which was more along the intended idea was much more serious in tone and the new Evil Dead by Fede Alverez felt much more similar to Within the Woods. It wasn't Evil Dead as we've come to know it but I always did like Within the Woods, and so I really enjoyed Fede's version.
Gaming has evolved a lot since 1996, so it would be difficult to claim that something made in 2020 is a "return to the roots" in any other way than story because of the massive leaps in technological achievements. And even then, the way that games tell stories today have changed as well so unless you're making a retro game or a remake its just not going to be the same. For example, the RE2 remake includes elements of retro gaming like the funny doorkeys. Such doorkeys would never make an appearance in a new game made today (like RE8), they're simply there because its a remake of a 90's game and they wanted to stay true to it as much as they could.
When it comes to the first-person debate in the modern RE series, I don't think the first person alone is the sole reason for them feeling different. Overall, RE7 was a big departure from the series - There's no doubt about it. Any gaming journalist who claimed that RE7 was a return to the series' roots either never played the classic RE games, or was simply repeating what other critics were saying at that time.
It's impossible to say "what could have been" if RE7 was in third-person, because so many aspects of the game are designed with VR and first-person in mind. Even then, I'm not the kind of person who'd immediately rush to the frontpage and say stuff like "This is classic Resident Evil because it takes place in an actual residence of evil like the first game".
When it comes to the first-person debate in the modern RE series, I don't think the first person alone is the sole reason for them feeling different. Overall, RE7 was a big departure from the series - There's no doubt about it. Any gaming journalist who claimed that RE7 was a return to the series' roots either never played the classic RE games, or was simply repeating what other critics were saying at that time.
It's impossible to say "what could have been" if RE7 was in third-person, because so many aspects of the game are designed with VR and first-person in mind. Even then, I'm not the kind of person who'd immediately rush to the frontpage and say stuff like "This is classic Resident Evil because it takes place in an actual residence of evil like the first game".
RE7 was quite controversial, but you're stretching it when you're saying...
RE7 clearly had elements of classic RE games that were abandoned with RE4. The game was quite calm, you had to explore set pieces, there was backtracking and puzzles. There was no focus on action. It had a very limited number of enemy types and allowed the player to either evade or engage enemies. Considering the events of and information found in Not A Hero, RE7 had a very typical RE plot: Some company exercises poor judgement in containment procedures and especially in their choice of employees. The game is just poorly written and not very well executed. The faceless hero wasn't really a departure, but just an overall dumb design decision.
Come to think of it, the original RE games are really, really bad by today's standards. The plot was all over the place and required multiple playthroughs to fully understand. The whole "bio weapon researcher is now chief of a police special tactics unit" and somehow lures that team into a trap theme was ridiculous at best. The whole mansion doesn't feel very functional and seems to consist of mostly corridors. They had to conjure up Trevor and Spencer's love for the obscure in the remake to even remotely justify that weird puzzle mansion.
The difference between RE1 and RE7 is, that RE1 was mechanically fun and the plot was entertaining enough to overlook all those weird moments and find them charming, in a b-movie way of appreciating quirks. RE7, on the other hand, tried so hard to relive old glories, that it forgot to be fun (besides a few good parts).
RE7 clearly had elements of classic RE games that were abandoned with RE4. The game was quite calm, you had to explore set pieces, there was backtracking and puzzles. There was no focus on action. It had a very limited number of enemy types and allowed the player to either evade or engage enemies. Considering the events of and information found in Not A Hero, RE7 had a very typical RE plot: Some company exercises poor judgement in containment procedures and especially in their choice of employees. The game is just poorly written and not very well executed. The faceless hero wasn't really a departure, but just an overall dumb design decision.
Come to think of it, the original RE games are really, really bad by today's standards. The plot was all over the place and required multiple playthroughs to fully understand. The whole "bio weapon researcher is now chief of a police special tactics unit" and somehow lures that team into a trap theme was ridiculous at best. The whole mansion doesn't feel very functional and seems to consist of mostly corridors. They had to conjure up Trevor and Spencer's love for the obscure in the remake to even remotely justify that weird puzzle mansion.
The difference between RE1 and RE7 is, that RE1 was mechanically fun and the plot was entertaining enough to overlook all those weird moments and find them charming, in a b-movie way of appreciating quirks. RE7, on the other hand, tried so hard to relive old glories, that it forgot to be fun (besides a few good parts).
I would absolutely agree with the phrase "RE7 has returned to its horror roots" or whatever combination of phrases are there. There are two major issues with RE7. The first person view was unnecessary. And the ending was rushed pretty bad. Just like it was in RE2 REmake and RE3 REmake (Seriously, get it together Capcom). The other issues that people have (lack of enemy diversity, overly movie references, bland characters) all have positives to them as well in my opinion.
But the bulk of that game was horrific. And the level of puzzles made it feel like an RE game. It is definitely a solid game, but it has its own shortcomings. But after RE6, RE7 was a slam dunk when it comes to atmosphere and intelligent design. I just hope they can do a next gen release with 3rd party view additions.
But the bulk of that game was horrific. And the level of puzzles made it feel like an RE game. It is definitely a solid game, but it has its own shortcomings. But after RE6, RE7 was a slam dunk when it comes to atmosphere and intelligent design. I just hope they can do a next gen release with 3rd party view additions.
I think it falls right back to what makes an RE game an RE game for fans. Which is why this will always seem like a tug-o-war argument that gets rehashed in every thread.
RE7, for me, will always feel like a spinoff that had a good budget. As you both have pointed out, the atmosphere and graphics were great. Even aspects of the gameplay, such as the inventory, save system, puzzles and weapons feels like classic RE. But everything else, that is controversial, is what makes this game feel less like a “true” RE title, and thus unworthy of the sentiment that it brings the series “back to its roots”.
Right off the bat, it wasn’t a smart move to do a “soft reboot” with bland protagonists. Their reason for even introducing brand new characters was nulled when Ethan starts blowing through monsters in the mines with more than enough firepower. Then there’s the side game that allows the playable character (Joe Baker) to shred through the molded as if they were made of toilet paper.
Bland characters has never been a thing for the RE series. Even if the characters were poorly written, they were always colorful and exaggerated with their personalities and style. It’s an issue when the antagonistic Bakers are more interesting than any of the protagonists.
First person is a drastically different feel from third person.
Lack of iconic avatars will always be an issue for many as well as the lack of tie-ins with previous games. It’s aggravating to think that there was a clear opening of tying Revelation 2’s story into RE7’s and finally have some cohesion and play up on Rev 2’s captivating storyline. Now Capcom is, finally, working Revelations 2’s story into the main series with RE8 (which is also a direct follow up to RE7), which goes to show that it was a storyline they should have worked into RE7 from the beginning.
This all brings us back to the main point Jonipoon was making in regards to mainstream critics giving it such highly acclaimed praise when there are clearly issues with it being a 7th installment.
RE7, for me, will always feel like a spinoff that had a good budget. As you both have pointed out, the atmosphere and graphics were great. Even aspects of the gameplay, such as the inventory, save system, puzzles and weapons feels like classic RE. But everything else, that is controversial, is what makes this game feel less like a “true” RE title, and thus unworthy of the sentiment that it brings the series “back to its roots”.
Right off the bat, it wasn’t a smart move to do a “soft reboot” with bland protagonists. Their reason for even introducing brand new characters was nulled when Ethan starts blowing through monsters in the mines with more than enough firepower. Then there’s the side game that allows the playable character (Joe Baker) to shred through the molded as if they were made of toilet paper.
Bland characters has never been a thing for the RE series. Even if the characters were poorly written, they were always colorful and exaggerated with their personalities and style. It’s an issue when the antagonistic Bakers are more interesting than any of the protagonists.
First person is a drastically different feel from third person.
Lack of iconic avatars will always be an issue for many as well as the lack of tie-ins with previous games. It’s aggravating to think that there was a clear opening of tying Revelation 2’s story into RE7’s and finally have some cohesion and play up on Rev 2’s captivating storyline. Now Capcom is, finally, working Revelations 2’s story into the main series with RE8 (which is also a direct follow up to RE7), which goes to show that it was a storyline they should have worked into RE7 from the beginning.
This all brings us back to the main point Jonipoon was making in regards to mainstream critics giving it such highly acclaimed praise when there are clearly issues with it being a 7th installment.
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