What are you Thinking? Resident Evil Edition!

[Turo602]

Yeah, I call bull**** on the photogrammetry excuse. I'm pretty sure Metal Gear Solid V used similar technology for Quiet and who knows who else yet Snake looks like Snake. Even Uncharted 4 has amazing facial expressions and all those characters look like how they should. Capcom was just too lazy to create or even update his pre-existing model to fit the new standards. It's not like Redfield's facial animation was anything special anyway. His face looked stupid and stuck. Also, hell yes "Redfield" looks drastically different from previous Chris models. They've been fairly consistent and have even stuck with the same model from REmake and have just been making tweaks to him. I don't get how people think because the guy in 7 is skinny and has a similar haircut, that he somehow looks more like REmake Chris than RE5 Chris who is an updated version of that same model.

I guess but something traditionally won't be drastically changed with that method. Stuff like hair and clothes are the things that are modified the most as far as I am aware. The structure of the body and face tends to remain a bit closer. While the change is quite drastic it is understandable. I would argue that plenty of characters had drastic changes of the years. Dante from Devil May Cry to DMC had a huge physical change. Samus Aran has changed over the years until they finally hit a design that kind of fit certain taboo (word used very loosely) that Nintendo seems to push artistically. Same happened with Link more and more over the ages. Another character that I felt was dramatic was Lara Croft from her old days to now. Not only does she look like a totally different person, she sounds and acts like one too.

Dante and Lara were changed because they were rebooted. Samus has only looked different/more realistic in the Prime games but has been very consistent with how she's been portrayed in the GBA games which came out simultaneously with the Prime games. As for Link, he was a product of bad art in his early days. Even Mario didn't look as refined as he does now but Link has been rather consistent since Ocarina of Time with differences either being minor to distinguish Link as a new person or major to reflect the art style like Wind Waker. Even then, both styles have co-existed and Link's overall design is still rather consistent.

 

[Airaku]

Yeah, I call bull**** on the photogrammetry excuse. I'm pretty sure Metal Gear Solid V used similar technology for Quiet and who knows who else yet Snake looks like Snake. Even Uncharted 4 has amazing facial expressions and all those characters look like how they should. Capcom was just too lazy to create or even update his pre-existing model to fit the new standards. It's not like Redfield's facial animation was anything special anyway. His face looked stupid and stuck. Also, hell yes "Redfield" looks drastically different from previous Chris models. They've been fairly consistent and have even stuck with the same model from REmake and have just been making tweaks to him. I don't get how people think because the guy in 7 is skinny and has a similar haircut, that he somehow looks more like REmake Chris than RE5 Chris who is an updated version of that same model.

I definitely agree with you on the MGSV stuff, but that's not helping the case when Quite is completely based on her model (Stefanie Joosten) but with bigger boobs. As for the rest of them, I can't say. Snake definitely looks like Snake and that's fair. I wouldn't quite call Capcom lazy though since the game is mega polished but they definitely used their actors for their character models like Kojima is doing with Death Stranding except with people who aren't exactly Hollywood actors.

As for how people say it looks like the original Chris. A lot of people are accounting a 2-3 console generations of graphical leaps, they are accounting for 21 year age gap, and accounting for the photogrammetry technology. That's 3 things people are basing the claim off of and that seems to be a lot of people. I do see it from both perspectives though. I fully see how it fits the bill and I also understand why people don't see it and think it's ridiculous. It's mainly ridiculous because vendetta should have been 100% consistence with the game of vice versa. That's the kicker that bugs the hell out of me.

Keep in mind legions of fans thought the RE5 Chris looked way too different from the original. It was nearly as bad as it is right now, maybe even worse. In fact many fans were convinced that it wasn't Chris Redfield but Billy Coen was the star of RE5 back when the game was first revealed and they never announced who the main character was. Many people saw more Billy than Chris. While most of the articles and discussions aren't around anymore you can still find some of them on the internet and Games Radar still has one of their articles on it http://www.gamesradar.com/resident-evil-5-character-revealed/ and apparently Billy's voice actor confirmed he had a role in the game (perhaps at one point? Billy's origins were tied to Africa which had fans pressing it was him). The fact that community was splitting that it's Chris or Billy goes to show how different people viewed the RE5 Chris model. It might sound silly to talk about today but back then both sides of the argument brought very logical points with the tattoo be removed and the voice actor speaking out about it. It was as much as a controversial issue then as this new Chris Redfield look is today and the whole "Chris Clone theory".

 

[Turo602]

I definitely agree with you on the MGSV stuff, but that's not helping the case when Quite looks exactly like her model but with bigger boobs. As for the rest of them, I can't say. Snake definitely looks like Snake and that's fair. I wouldn't quite call Capcom lazy though since the game is mega polished but they definitely used their actors for their character models like Kojima is doing with Death Stranding except with people who aren't exactly Hollywood actors.

As for how people say it looks like the original Chris. A lot of people are accounting a 2-3 console generations of graphical leaps, they are accounting for 21 year age gap, and accounting for the photogrammetry technology. That's 3 things people are basing the claim off of and that seems to be a lot of people. I do see it from both perspectives though. I fully see how it fits the bill and I also understand why people don't see it and think it's ridiculous. It's mainly ridiculous because vendetta should have been 100% consistence with the game of vice versa. That's the kicker that bugs the hell out of me.

Keep in mind legions of fans thought the RE5 Chris looked way too different from the original. It was nearly as bad as it is right now, maybe even worse. In fact many fans were convinced that it wasn't Chris Redfield but Billy Coen was the star of RE5 back when the game was first revealed and they never announced who the main character was. Many people saw more Billy than Chris. While most of the articles and discussions aren't around anymore you can still find some of them on the internet and Games Radar still has one of their articles on it http://www.gamesradar.com/resident-evil-5-character-revealed/ and apparently Billy's voice actor confirmed he had a role in the game (perhaps at one point? Billy's origins were tied to Africa which had fans pressing it was him). The fact that community was splitting that it's Chris or Billy goes to show how different people viewed the RE5 Chris model. It might sound silly to talk about today but back then both sides of the argument brought very logical points with the tattoo be removed and the voice actor speaking out about it. It was as much as a controversial issue then as this new Chris Redfield look is today and the whole "Chris Clone theory".

I'd call it lazy when their defense for changing him was that he didn't look realistic in RE6... So rather than update him like they did with 5 and 6, they take the easy way out and just use some random guy. Not to mention the lack of content in the base game.

But what exactly does accounting for any of that do? Make it suddenly look like the same person? People just want to see what they want to see. People who are convinced that he looks like REmake Chris are the same people who say RE5 Chris looks nothing like Chris because he's buff despite the models literally being the same. Resident Evil HD Remaster has the most telling evidence.

There's some obvious tweaks, mainly in the brow and forehead, but it's clearly the same guy just by looking at the face. Slap on the same hair and 5 o'clock shadow onto the REmake model and it would no doubt shut anyone up who says they don't look alike. People get thrown off by the simplest things and like I said before, see what they want to see. Just like when everyone insisted that Chris was Billy Coen or more recently, that Redfield looks exactly like the HUNK art from Resident Evil 3. All they saw was a guy who dressed in black and works for Umbrella and preferred the idea of it being HUNK rather than Chris, so they tried to connect what wasn't there, just like they did with Billy Coen in RE5.

 

[HookerZombie]

The new Chris looks kind of different for sure but not that different. Chris has always been portrayed as a chiseled white dude with dark hair. Plus they changed his appearance drastically in RE5 by giving him steroid arms honestly I don't undetstand why more people weren't bothered by that.

 

[Jen]

The new Chris looks kind of different for sure but not that different. Chris has always been portrayed as a chiseled white dude with dark hair. Plus they changed his appearance drastically in RE5 by giving him steroid arms honestly I don't undetstand why more people weren't bothered by that.

I feel they gave a valid reason for that change though, Chris bulked up in order to fight Wesker. It's believable that he changed a little during the time he was absent from the games and bulked up. Changing his entire face is a different matter, and it's not like they just tweaked it, he's totally different.

 

[HookerZombie]

I feel they gave a valid reason for that change though, Chris bulked up in order to fight Wesker. It's believable that he changed a little during the time he was absent from the games and bulked up. Changing his entire face is a different matter, and it's not like they just tweaked it, he's totally different.

I can see where one could come up with that theory, but frankly I think that most likely Capcom buffed him up so that his chatacter would appeal more to the Arnold Schwarzenegger/Sylvester Stallone action hero fans. I mean Resident Evil 5 is a pretty straight forward action game.

And of course they kept Jill's appearance exactly the same as in the RE1 remake other than growing her hair longer. Except of course they turned her hair blonde while she was under Wesker's control.

Edit: frankly I think turning Jill blonde was really just a form of fan service.

 

[Turo602]

I can see where one could come up with that theory, but frankly I think that most likely Capcom buffed him up so that his chatacter would appeal more to the Arnold Schwarzenegger/Sylvester Stallone action hero fans. I mean Resident Evil 5 is a pretty straight forward action game.

And of course they kept Jill's appearance exactly the same as in the RE1 remake other than growing her hair longer. Except of course they turned her hair blonde while she was under Wesker's control.

Edit: frankly I think turning Jill blonde was really just a form of fan service.

Except it's not a theory. Look at the model from Lost in Nightmares. He's not as bulked up as the one from the main campaign of 5. Also, Jill wasn't kept exactly the same either. Her nose looks bigger in 5.

 

[HookerZombie]

Except it's not a theory. Look at the model from Lost in Nightmares. He's not as bulked up as the one from the main campaign of 5. Also, Jill wasn't kept exactly the same either. Her nose looks bigger in 5.

You are wrong he is just as bulked in LiN he's just not wearing a tight T-shirt. And if you check Jill's BSAA costume and every other costume in Resident Evil Remaster she looks exactly the same.

 

[Turo602]

You are wrong he is just as bulked in LiN he's just not wearing a tight T-shirt. And if you check Jill's BSAA costume and every other costume in Resident Evil Remaster she looks exactly the same.

Yet he looks about the same size with a tight shirt as he does with bulky gear on... Not to mention, his shoulders look even more ridiculous with the tight shirt. And no, Jill is not "exactly" the same.

Just like with Chris, they made some tweaks and adjustments.

 

[bSTAR_182]

I will say that this shot of the "mysterious Redfield" is arguably the best representation of Chris in RE7- but that is where it ends... the angry face.

The voice actor is probably the worst part to me... I cringe at how he says "I'm Redfield". Bitch, no you aint!
It sounds like he really had to try hard to make his voice sound deep. Him calling himself 'Redfield' is out of character as well as him being a part of Umbrella- regardless of if they're the good guys now (which I highly doubt).

 

[HookerZombie]

Yet he looks about the same size with a tight shirt as he does with bulky gear on... Not to mention, his shoulders look even more ridiculous with the tight shirt. And no, Jill is not "exactly" the same.

Just like with Chris, they made some tweaks and adjustments.

Other than a slight difference in her nose she still looks the same to me pal.

 

[Turo602]

Other than a slight difference in her nose she still looks the same to me pal.

I never said she didn't look the same. Just not "exactly" the same like you were claiming.

 

[HookerZombie]

I never said she didn't look the same. Just not "exactly" the same like you were claiming.

Well I still think she looks pretty much exactly the same. In fact looking back at that photo the noses aren't really different from each other it's just the angle where she's holding her face.

And Chris is buffed in both Lost in Nightmares and RE5 there is no difference in his appearance at all other than what he's wearing. That's all I have left to say. =)

 

[Turo602]

Well I still think she looks pretty much exactly the same. In fact looking back at that photo the noses aren't really different from each other it's just the angle where she's holding her face.

And Chris is buffed in both Lost in Nightmares and RE5 there is no difference in his appearance at all other than what he's wearing. That's all I have left to say. =)

You might want to look again because the head shape is visibly different as well.

Anyway, believe what you want to believe. I'm not gonna argue this anymore.

 

[Airaku]

I'd call it lazy when their defense for changing him was that he didn't look realistic in RE6... So rather than update him like they did with 5 and 6, they take the easy way out and just use some random guy. Not to mention the lack of content in the base game.

But what exactly does accounting for any of that do? Make it suddenly look like the same person? People just want to see what they want to see. People who are convinced that he looks like REmake Chris are the same people who say RE5 Chris looks nothing like Chris because he's buff despite the models literally being the same. Resident Evil HD Remaster has the most telling evidence.

There's some obvious tweaks, mainly in the brow and forehead, but it's clearly the same guy just by looking at the face. Slap on the same hair and 5 o'clock shadow onto the REmake model and it would no doubt shut anyone up who says they don't look alike. People get thrown off by the simplest things and like I said before, see what they want to see. Just like when everyone insisted that Chris was Billy Coen or more recently, that Redfield looks exactly like the HUNK art from Resident Evil 3. All they saw was a guy who dressed in black and works for Umbrella and preferred the idea of it being HUNK rather than Chris, so they tried to connect what wasn't there, just like they did with Billy Coen in RE5.

How is it "lazy" that they went for different approach with expensive technology because they wanted to go for a more realistic art-style that has never been done before in Resident Evil history? While I'd be willing to agree and debate that while RE7 was a solid game, I would also play with the idea that the art style used was not nescarilly the right move for the series. That being said it is far, far, far removed from being lazy. It's actually quite to opposite because if they updated him (which I agree, they could have) we would be having another fan issue on our hands in which Chris Redfield appearing in lower quality graphically and inconsistent with all the other characters in the game. He would stand out and look out of place. Now would many fans prefer this? Maybe, maybe they would. However that being said consistency is a key factor in game development and many developers will stubbornly defend that case. The developer in me is irked and offended by this comment, but the gamer in my does a agree with you and wished more developers could shuffle that mindset. Unfortunately consistency is key and Chris was casted from a real person just like every other character in the game. Now I will 100% support the notion as to WHY. THE. ****. IS. ROGER. CRAIG. SMITH. NOT. CHRIS? Yeah, I'm as disappointed about that as everyone else. However his appearance is 100% logical and developed consistently with the rest of the game and far from being lazy. I mean they could have just been lazy and copy pasted his model from Vendetta, rig the model for the game, and do some motion capture for the rig.

As for the lack of content... I some what disagree in the sense that the game's quality is top notch from beginning to end. Yes it's short, but so were the earlier RE outings. I beat the game 3 times and through all it's modes and got the Platinum. I think I sunk about 40 hours into that game. So it's a fair assessment to say it had enough content to give me my moneys worth. Playing through "Madhouse" is a completely different experience unlike most games "New game Plus" or higher difficulties. So I suppose it's perspective.

PS. Don't forget they changed Chris's eye colors too But now I'm just being picky with that xD

 

[HookerZombie]

PS. Don't forget they changed Chris's eye colors too But now I'm just being picky with that xD

Chris's hair color has often changed in the series too along with some of the other characters. It has went from brown to black depending on the game he's in. Also Leon's hair has went from being red in the cutscenes of RE2 to brown in the actual game to blonde in RE4 and just about everything else. Jill's hair has went from dark brown in RE1 to light brown in RE3 (and her hairstyle changed from the original RE1 to the remake of RE1). Also Rebecca at one point was wearing a bandanna.

It seems like Claire is the only one who never really changes her hair.

 

[Turo602]

How is it "lazy" that they went for different approach with expensive technology because they wanted to go for a more realistic art-style that has never been done before in Resident Evil history? While I'd be willing to agree and debate that while RE7 was a solid game, I would also play with the idea that the art style used was not nescarilly the right move for the series. That being said it is far, far, far removed from being lazy. It's actually quite to opposite because if they updated him (which I agree, they could have) we would be having another fan issue on our hands in which Chris Redfield appearing in lower quality graphically and inconsistent with all the other characters in the game. He would stand out and look out of place. Now would many fans prefer this? Maybe, maybe they would. However that being said consistency is a key factor in game development and many developers will stubbornly defend that case. The developer in me is irked and offended by this comment, but the gamer in my does a agree with you and wished more developers could shuffle that mindset. Unfortunately consistency is key and Chris was casted from a real person just like every other character in the game. Now I will 100% support the notion as to WHY. THE. ****. IS. ROGER. CRAIG. SMITH. NOT. CHRIS? Yeah, I'm as disappointed about that as everyone else. However his appearance is 100% logical and developed consistently with the rest of the game and far from being lazy. I mean they could have just been lazy and copy pasted his model from Vendetta, rig the model for the game, and do some motion capture for the rig.

As for the lack of content... I some what disagree in the sense that the game's quality is top notch from beginning to end. Yes it's short, but so were the earlier RE outings. I beat the game 3 times and through all it's modes and got the Platinum. I think I sunk about 40 hours into that game. So it's a fair assessment to say it had enough content to give me my moneys worth. Playing through "Madhouse" is a completely different experience unlike most games "New game Plus" or higher difficulties. So I suppose it's perspective.

PS. Don't forget they changed Chris's eye colors too But now I'm just being picky with that xD

They chose convenience over faithfully recreating a character. That's lazy. How expensive the technology was is irrelevant. Big Boss looked very at home in MGSV and so did Quiet so I don't see how he would look out of place or graphically inferior. The character model doesn't have to look like the actor. The actor is just providing realistic facial animations. It's not an impossible task to get it done and make it look right and consistent with the rest of the game.

Resident Evil 4 was top notch from beginning to end 2 generations ago and it still had more content. Same story with Resident Evil 5 and 6 last generation. Even Resident Evil 2 from 3 generations ago had more content. We shouldn't have to wait for "free content." It should have been unlockable from the start. The content that was available shortly after release should have been in the game and the Not a Hero crap should have been DLC since they're very clearly still working on it. They have the whole thing ass backwards.

 

[Airaku]

Chris's hair color has often changed in the series too along with some of the other characters. It has went from brown to black depending on the game he's in. Also Leon's hair has went from being red in the cutscenes of RE2 to brown in the actual game to blonde in RE4 and just about everything else. Jill's hair has went from dark brown in RE1 to light brown in RE3 (and her hairstyle changed from the original RE1 to the remake of RE1). Also Rebecca at one point was wearing a bandanna.

It seems like Claire is the only one who never really changes her hair.

Nah Claire cut her hair after she went for a swim! But it was nothing eye raising and looked 100% consistent. I prefer her ponytail and Jill looks much better with her short hair than in RE5 But that's just me!

They chose convenience over faithfully recreating a character. That's lazy. How expensive the technology was is irrelevant. Big Boss looked very at home in MGSV and so did Quiet so I don't see how he would look out of place or graphically inferior. The character model doesn't have to look like the actor. The actor is just providing realistic facial animations. It's not an impossible task to get it done and make it look right and consistent with the rest of the game.

Resident Evil 4 was top notch from beginning to end 2 generations ago and it still had more content. Same story with Resident Evil 5 and 6 last generation. Even Resident Evil 2 from 3 generations ago had more content. We shouldn't have to wait for "free content." It should have been unlockable from the start. The content that was available shortly after release should have been in the game and the Not a Hero crap should have been DLC since they're very clearly still working on it. They have the whole thing ass backwards.

The thing is, that isn't what photogrammetry is. With photogrammetry the character models are scanned from the actor and is based on their likeness. They pretty much always look like the person, and while I'll give it the benefit of the doubt... I'm unaware of a case or example where it doesn't. Motion capture is what you're thinking of and you would be correct to think that the actor looks nothing like the model. Hell, they aren't even always playing a human like Andy Serkis does with Snoke and Caesar. Motion Capture uses little nodes and accessory's that Photogrammetry doesn't. At least not until the motion capture stage, but they may use another actor for that or use pre-existing motion capture animation data/files. Capcom went with consistency so while it would be easier to port the Vendetta model over and use some motion capture work, it could very well look out of place. Phantom Pain absolutely did get away with it but the difference is only one character used it. By looks of her in game model you can tell they also retextured her to fit the style of the game. Phantom Pain has much smoother skin textures and the texture (in my opinion) reacted better with the lighting in Phantom Pain. It's also kind of silly to compare Hideo Kojima's work also. I mean he's kind of the best of the best Also to be fair Phantom Pain didn't use Photogrammetry at the level RE7 did or Death Stranding will.

As I mentioned earlier it's a standard industry practice to go for consistency and often sacrifices are made. This could have been a sacrifice on Capcom's part. Neither of us truly know why the decision was made but I'm pretty confident to say it has to do with "consistency" as it's expected within the industry. Keep in mind that "gamer logic" and "developer logic" is unfortunately rarely the same.

As for my comments about the quality of the other games. You're right, it was a dumb thing of me to say and I trying to say RE7 was better quality; just that it's quality all the way through. So was RE4 and 5 and the rest of them; RE6 not so much. The driving portions were not polished and handled poorly and I say that as one of the people who defend RE6. That game was higher quality than most other games for it's time and was rated way lower than it should be for the amount of polish it had. Quality is something I come to expect from Resident Evil as I'm sure most of us do. Personally I got over 40 hours out of RE7 between getting the platinum and playing the other game modes so I'm happy with it. I agree that it would have been nice if Not A Hero was released with the game but it was never even announced prior to the games release and was a surprise. I'd prefer it to be polished and up to par with the Resident Evil experiences so I'll wait I'm just glad they aren't pulling the kind of bull**** they did with RE5 with the on disk DLC and locking the multiplayer behind a pay wall. That wasn't cool; luckily I got the collectors edition anyways xD I trust Capcom when they say it's not ready and need more time to polish it up. Though one could counter argue that they should have focused more time on "Not A Hero" rather than spend all that effort on the mediocre "Banned Footage" stuff. The only one I thought was really good was the "21" game. The rest wasn't even as fun as Mercenaries imho.

 

[Cheer]

This maybe a stupid thing. but how does one get the worst ending for Chris in Resident Evil Director's cut?

 

[HookerZombie]

I know in the REmake you have to let Rebecca get killed by the hunter and not rescue Jill before escaping. Not sure if that's how it works in The Director's Cut of RE1...