Smoke?

[Elochai]

Today I tried Camel Activate. It's like regular Camel, but anytime you want, you can press something inside the filter and it releases a menthol taste for a while. It's really cool, since I like menthol cigarettes. However, I still prefer Marlboro.

That's what I smoke! Here in the US they are called Camel Crushes. Nice, aren't they?

 

[bruno]

That's what I smoke! Here in the US they are called Camel Crushes. Nice, aren't they?

Yeah, I like them, I like the menthol flavour and you can change from regular to menthol at anytime.

 

[Silverback]

Or we can just let people do what they want. No such thing as being free to not be allowed to buy/smoke something. That's not freedom at all...

Freedom of the self from addiction.

It's not like if someone starts smoking, I can't just get up and walk away from them. Maybe smoking near children and the elderly (and those unable to get away if they please) should be outlawed.

You shouldn't have to move. These idiots who smoke around other people - with little respect for their health, should f*ck right off.

Smoke where you can't harm others.

 

[Mr Sunshine]

My main problem with smoking is at nightclubs and bars. In any other indoor place the smoke is not that much, but in clubs.. your clothes just have to smell like crap if you want to go there. The best part is that they supposedly prohibited smoking in public indoor places like three years ago. hmph.

And to answer the initial question, I haven't even tried a single cigarette in my whole life.

 

[Angel]

Good point. Lets fall on Jesus, and let Him put His plan into action.

There won't be a single tobacco farm or plant or anything of that nature in His coming system of things.

I don't get that. No offence, but if you believe God made this world then it's only logical to believe He also made tobacco plants. And marijuana plants. And whatever else of that nature. Perhaps the original intentions for those plants was not for smoking - we've seen in this thread already that both weed and tobacco can be used for other things than smoking. But we also have free will and if we choose to smoke either substance then that is our choice. But I personally believe that whilst it is our choice, it should only ever affect us and no one else.

If you're a smoker and you've got kids - be responsible. Don't let them breathe it in. Ever.

If you're into weed, keep it to yourself. Don't get stoned around those who depend on you to take care of them. Be responsible in your use of it. Be aware that whilst it is not physically addictive, there is a psychological aspect which must be taken into account if you are that sort of person who gets hooked on experiences like that.

If either of these habits are starting to have a negative effect on your life then perhaps it is time to take stock and make some changes. Other than that? Keep it a personal thing; don't force it onto others whether it's indirectly or not.

 

[La Femme Fatale]

^ Angel is one smart cookie.

 

[Silverback]

I don't get that. No offence, but if you believe God made this world then it's only logical to believe He also made tobacco plants. And marijuana plants. And whatever else of that nature. Perhaps the original intentions for those plants was not for smoking - we've seen in this thread already that both weed and tobacco can be used for other things than smoking. But we also have free will and if we choose to smoke either substance then that is our choice. But I personally believe that whilst it is our choice, it should only ever affect us and no one else.

I'll try to respond to this post without going too far. I've been angry all day for various reasons, so I'm sorry if I cause an upset.

You said: "But it's our choice"

God didn't put these things on Earth so we could harm ourselves with them. That would be abusing His gift of life.

With this in mind, it would be disobedient to damage our bodies by smoking tobacco. Disobedience, the same quality of spirit Satan displayed to God, and Eve, and eventually Adam. Look what it got them.

Go and abuse the gift of life, if you like. I wouldn't.

If you're a smoker and you've got kids - be responsible. Don't let them breathe it in. Ever.

Agreed.

If you're into weed, keep it to yourself. Don't get stoned around those who depend on you to take care of them. Be responsible in your use of it. Be aware that whilst it is not physically addictive, there is a psychological aspect which must be taken into account if you are that sort of person who gets hooked on experiences like that.

Agreed.

If either of these habits are starting to have a negative effect on your life then perhaps it is time to take stock and make some changes. Other than that? Keep it a personal thing; don't force it onto others whether it's indirectly or not.

Agreed.

 

[Meg]

I'll try to respond to this post without going too far. I've been angry all day for various reasons, so I'm sorry if I cause an upset.

You said: "But it's our choice"

God didn't put these things on Earth so we could harm ourselves with them. That would be abusing His gift of life.

With this in mind, it would be disobedient to damage our bodies by smoking tobacco. Disobedience, the same quality of spirit Satan displayed to God, and Eve, and eventually Adam. Look what it got them.

Go and abuse the gift of life, if you like. I wouldn't.

God gave us the gift of free-will. We have brains and are allowed to make our own choices. God doesn't have to approve of everything we do, but he was awesome enough to give us the choice. To take away things that might harm us is to take away our free-will and taking that away is more of an insult to God than a person smoking. Saying that you, governments, or anyone should have the power to say "no you can't do that because it's bad for you" is putting yourself on top and acting like you know what's best for everyone. That also goes against God.

 

[Angel]

I'm not denying that doing things wrong, as a Christian, goes against what you're supposed to do. But what you have to remember is that, as a Christian, I am also living under grace and can therefore mess up from time to time without tying myself in knots over it. Guilt and condemnation are not tools of God but of Satan - that's biblical truth right there. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus - so if I were to have a cigarette (I don't smoke, as I've said, but for the sake of argument) I could realise it's not the best thing for me, say sorry to God and do my best to give up.

New Testament - "we can do all things but not all things are good for us to do". This demonstrates the freedom we have in Christ but also the responsibility that there are consequences for our actions that we must face if we choose something that isn't such a good idea. I eat junk. This is bad for me to do because it leads to health problems (and poor fashion options!) - but I have the freedom to eat crap all day long if I like - just little point in me going to God, "why am I so fat? And with heart disease? THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!" I made a choice out of God-given free will, made the wrong choice and now I'm paying for it (just an example - I don't really eat junk all day long).

The bible speaks of God as a father - the analogy is made many times. As a parent you can instruct your child in the way to go but if they choose to go a different way then you continue to love them, but you have to let them make their own mistakes. God does this. But He also expects us to take the consequences of our actions - this goes for all areas of life, not just smoking.

Also, to reiterate my point I made in my previous post - perhaps God did NOT intend for the plants I mentioned to be used for smoking. But that's what we've done - we can harm ourselves with many things that are natural on this earth. Poppies provide opium, for example - we can use that in medicine to help people manage their pain or we can get high on the stuff and kill ourselves in the process. God gives us minds to use and if we misuse them, then that is our choice. And if it's the wrong choice, we have to deal with the outcome just as we would with the right choice.

I'm sorry you're angry today but I'm not having a go at you - I just wanted to make it clear that we have choices and even if some people make choices you personally don't agree with, you have to be able to respect their God-given right to exercise their free will, however much you may see it as an abuse.

 

[Silverback]

God gave us the gift of free-will. We have brains and are allowed to make our own choices.

God gave us brains to put to good use, to woship Him. Making our own choices doesn't include being disobedient. Theres a fine line.

Obedience = Endless blessings.
Disobedience = Punishment for sins, like Adam and Eve, who themselves were disobedient.

Damaging the gift of life, is not something we were created to do. Life would be meaningless if we were built to destroy ourselves through such things as smoking.

God doesn't have to approve of everything we do, but he was awesome enough to give us the choice.

Indeed. He gave us the ablility to discern between following Him, or following Satan.

Your lifestyle determines who your master is. You can choose to follow the Bible as follow God's instructions for mankind, or you can choose to follow Satan and live a lifestyle of sin and wickedness, which the Bible itself explains will lead you into destruction.

How about we all choose the right choice?

To take away things that might harm us is to take away our free-will and taking that away is more of an insult to God than a person smoking.

Contradicting what I said earlier, God won't take tobacco away, but He will take away the factories and other such companies that make harmful products out of it. He isn't taking the bad choice away, just the corporations that create harmful substances out of the "bad choice" ie: Tobacco.

It states in the Bible that God will destroy this current wicked system of things at the appointed time. I'm sure this includes all tobacco factories.

Saying that you, governments, or anyone should have the power to say "no you can't do that because it's bad for you" is putting yourself on top and acting like you know what's best for everyone.

I'm just following what God states in the Bible. GOD is telling those will will listen, to stop causing harm to yourself through sin, because it leads to death and God wants as many saved as possible.

That also goes against God.

Not the God of the Bible, it doesn't.

 

[Meg]

snip

No. God gave us brains and free will knowing we would have the choice to follow him or not. The beauty of God is that he gave us the choice to live by him and his word. We have the choice to live a healthy lifestyle. We are not mindless drones that must follow everything he says: as you seem to be suggesting. Taking away the factories and means of getting the substance is the same as taking away the thing itself. Either way people are being told what they can and cannot have.

But why am I even bothering to have this discussion with you? You're obviously going to disagree. I really don't feel like going in circles about this, so consider this my last post to you.

 

[La Femme Fatale]

I think I'll need to have a smoke after this one.

 

[Silverback]

I'm not denying that doing things wrong, as a Christian, goes against what you're supposed to do. But what you have to remember is that, as a Christian, I am also living under grace and can therefore mess up from time to time without tying myself in knots over it.

Thats great.

Guilt and condemnation are not tools of God but of Satan - that's biblical truth right there. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus - so if I were to have a cigarette (I don't smoke, as I've said, but for the sake of argument) I could realise it's not the best thing for me, say sorry to God and do my best to give up.

Great, we agree. I don't mean to come off as trying to cause anyone to feel guilt, or condemnation although I realise I could have done. I'm sorry.

Yeah, I remember hearing before and you've just reminded me, that Satan likes to use such tools as apathy, grief, guilt, shame and so on. Thank you.

New Testament - "we can do all things but not all things are good for us to do". This demonstrates the freedom we have in Christ but also the responsibility that there are consequences for our actions that we must face if we choose something that isn't such a good idea. I eat junk. This is bad for me to do because it leads to health problems (and poor fashion options!) - but I have the freedom to eat crap all day long if I like - just little point in me going to God, "why am I so fat? And with heart disease? THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!" I made a choice out of God-given free will, made the wrong choice and now I'm paying for it (just an example - I don't really eat junk all day long).

I agree with this statement, although also in the Bible (don't recall whether Old or New Testament - I'm only on 2 Kings right now) God explains that making these wrong decisions will lead to death eventually. Sin leads to death.
Why choose death over everlasting life?

The bible speaks of God as a father - the analogy is made many times. As a parent you can instruct your child in the way to go but if they choose to go a different way then you continue to love them, but you have to let them make their own mistakes. God does this. But He also expects us to take the consequences of our actions - this goes for all areas of life, not just smoking.

Agreed. Like I said, I didn't mean to come off as condemning. But when one claims to be a Christian, I expect them to try to live that lifestyle, and not sin just because God gave us a choice to pick one or the other.

Also, to reiterate my point I made in my previous post - perhaps God did NOT intend for the plants I mentioned to be used for smoking. But that's what we've done - we can harm ourselves with many things that are natural on this earth.

While this is a good point, I'm not sure what harm smoking marijuana can do to you - Unless of course, you smoke too much of it, but too much of anything is bad for you.

You might be right on this however. Marijuana has many uses, so we'll never know for sure until the next system of things.

Poppies provide opium, for example - we can use that in medicine to help people manage their pain or we can get high on the stuff and kill ourselves in the process. God gives us minds to use and if we misuse them, then that is our choice. And if it's the wrong choice, we have to deal with the outcome just as we would with the right choice.

To be honest, if you know better, you have no excuse to pick the bad choice, regardless of if you have the choice or not. God wants us to choose the right choice, because it leads to everlasting life.

The wrong choice leads to sin (lawlessness), which leads to death.

I'm sorry you're angry today but I'm not having a go at you - I just wanted to make it clear that we have choices and even if some people make choices you personally don't agree with, you have to be able to respect their God-given right to exercise their free will, however much you may see it as an abuse.

God hopes we all choose the right choices, in order to attain everlasting life. It can be hard watching someone p**s their life down the drain. Especially a Christian.

Having said that, I guess you're right.

 

[Silverback]

No. God gave us brains and free will knowing we would have the choice to follow him or not.

If you know better, you shouldn't live sinfully because it causes harm to God and yourself.

It damages your intimate friendship with Him.

The beauty of God is that he gave us the choice to live by him and his word. We have the choice to live a healthy lifestyle.

To choose is to ask yourself: "Am I going to do good deeds, or evil deeds?"

Man cannot serve two masters - Matthew 6:24

We are not mindless drones that must follow everything he says: as you seem to be suggesting.

You're following God's law, right? So why are you getting angry at me?

To do good doesn't make you a mindless drone. It just means your choosing good choices over evil ones.

Taking away the factories and means of getting the substance is the same as taking away the thing itself.

I'm talking about the factories that make cigarettes. Taking cigarettes away won't take tobacco away.

Either way people are being told what they can and cannot have.

Now, why do you think that is? I think it's because God wants us to be free from that which destroys us.

He is a loving Father, afterall.

But why am I even bothering to have this discussion with you? You're obviously going to disagree. I really don't feel like going in circles about this, so consider this my last post to you.

Thats fair enough. I'm sorry if I come off as condemning, Meg. I seek the will of the Father, not of myself.

 

[Angel]

Biblically, the wages of sin is death. That is true. Hence why what Jesus has done is all the more radical - he took our wages, our punishment, upon himself so that we would not have to bear it ourselves. Death, in this case, is talking about eternal separation from God - mortally speaking we all die. That's how it is. But God's ultimate desire is for us to acknowledge him, be saved and therefore not have that separation after we die.

With regards to bad choices, yes if we know better than common sense would say, "uh...don't do it, you fool" - but there are many times when the right choice is actually the harder one and in our human weakness we go for the lesser option for the short-term pleasure or ease. Christians strive to do better but they are not called to do it alone - that's where the issue of the Holy Spirit comes into it, which is a whole other conversation! But, again, because we are humans regardless of our faith, we will continue to make the wrong choices although one would hope on a lesser scale than before.

Everlasting life is not about good deeds and right choices. You can get to heaven on a technicality, if you so wish - it's boring and more than a little hypocritical, but it's possible. No, everlasting life comes from accepting Jesus Christ as the Son of the living God, asking him to be in your life and embarking on a relationship that will change your life entirely, if you allow it. When you love someone, you want to make them happy - so naturally as a Christian one would hope your intention is to do your best to make God happy by following what he asks of you. But just as you screw up in human relationships, you will screw up with God. Which is where grace comes in and repentance with the desire and will to do better next time.

Each Christian's walk with God is a personal journey. But it is not private. If you can see a fellow follower slipping by the way side then you get alongside them, offer to help if they want it but ultimately you be there for them as a friend. You cannot order or insist someone do the right thing - you can only encourage and give reason for it. I have a few Christian friends who are seriously messed up right now - their faith is their business but if they ask me, I will tell them they are being stupid in certain areas. But it is their choice whether they listen or not. As it is said in the bible, it is possible to "harden your heart" against what God is telling you - whether it be through scripture or via a sermon or a friend who wants what is best for you. I'm not saying it's ideal for a Christian to be this way - of course it's not - but it's something that happens and it is only through the love, prayers, encouragement and friendship of others that they will eventually get back on course; as well as God doing his bit in his own time, of course.

 

[Silverback]

Biblically, the wages of sin is death. That is true. Hence why what Jesus has done is all the more radical - he took our wages, our punishment, upon himself so that we would not have to bear it ourselves. Death, in this case, is talking about eternal separation from God - mortally speaking we all die. That's how it is. But God's ultimate desire is for us to acknowledge him, be saved and therefore not have that separation after we die.

Adamic sin brought death. Seeing as we are all his seed, we inherited Adamic sin.

Not everybody dies, however. The obedient go to one of two places.

1: Heaven.
2: A new "Paradise" Earth.

The latter will be brought about after Armageddon, once all of the sinners have been cut off from God's people. Earth will be rebuilt under control of God.

The wicked system of things we live in now is ruled by Satan.

With regards to bad choices, yes if we know better than common sense would say, "uh...don't do it, you fool" - but there are many times when the right choice is actually the harder one and in our human weakness we go for the lesser option for the short-term pleasure or ease. Christians strive to do better but they are not called to do it alone - that's where the issue of the Holy Spirit comes into it, which is a whole other conversation! But, again, because we are humans regardless of our faith, we will continue to make the wrong choices although one would hope on a lesser scale than before.

Exactly right. I'm nowhere near the sort of Christian I may make myself out to be. I feel too deeply rooted in this system of things to change. Hell, I'm ment to be at the kingdom hall tonight but don't feel like going. It's awful.

Everlasting life is not about good deeds and right choices.

I humbly disagree. The wicked are getting cut off for a reason.

You can get to heaven on a technicality, if you so wish - it's boring and more than a little hypocritical, but it's possible.

Technicality?

No, everlasting life comes from accepting Jesus Christ as the Son of the living God, asking him to be in your life and embarking on a relationship that will change your life entirely, if you allow it.

Correct, as long as you've undergone an immersion baptism first. This symbolizes to God you want to follow His way of life and not your own.

Also, this is meaningless if you're not taking in the knowledge of God and continuing what Jesus/Apostles did.

When you love someone, you want to make them happy - so naturally as a Christian one would hope your intention is to do your best to make God happy by following what he asks of you. But just as you screw up in human relationships, you will screw up with God. Which is where grace comes in and repentance with the desire and will to do better next time.

That is exactly right. It's a heartwarming thought that our God is as forgiving as He is. It brings me great comfort when I take the time to reflect on His love, which sadly isn't often. Goddamned media addiction.

I'm not perfect, either. ^ ^

Each Christian's walk with God is a personal journey. But it is not private. If you can see a fellow follower slipping by the way side then you get alongside them, offer to help if they want it but ultimately you be there for them as a friend.

This is true.

You cannot order or insist someone do the right thing - you can only encourage and give reason for it. I have a few Christian friends who are seriously messed up right now - their faith is their business but if they ask me, I will tell them they are being stupid in certain areas. But it is their choice whether they listen or not. As it is said in the bible, it is possible to "harden your heart" against what God is telling you - whether it be through scripture or via a sermon or a friend who wants what is best for you. I'm not saying it's ideal for a Christian to be this way - of course it's not - but it's something that happens and it is only through the love, prayers, encouragement and friendship of others that they will eventually get back on course; as well as God doing his bit in his own time, of course.

I've just realised... I think God is using you to speak to me, because as of the last couple of weeks I've been hardhearted toward God.

Both my mother and myself are JW's. (well, my mother is, I just study with one.) And ever since I've been a small child, we've had an unstable relationship with each other for a clusterf**k of reasons.

I have a great hatred in my heart for her. She's that bad in my mind. I feel that in order to break away from her, I have to break away from God and harden my heart towards both of them.

Goddamnit. Why can't I just study on my own at home? Instead of having to attend a meeting.

I agree with what you said in your post.

 

[bruno]

Oh noes, the smokers' room is turning into a religion discussion
I don't want to disrespect any of you or anything, but since it seems to be a long and interesting discussion, maybe it would deserve it's own thread?

 

[Meg]

Wait this thread was about smoking? I thought it was about smoke bombs. *is disappointed*

 

[VP-70]

This thread is coming together quite nicely........


Anyways, When i find myself in a big white room with no walls floor or roof and i'm wondering just what's going on as i notice i don't even cast a shadow, i fully expect God or one of his trusted to appear, and offer me a light as i pat myself down looking for the lighter i never seem to have.

Smoking is such a non issue in the eyes of the all mighty. Infact, when making his little souls on his galactic sized Sims creator,he created a smoke and had it hang from the littles guys mouth and saw '' that it was...epic. '' and that it was '' Good for man, to be full of win ''

Anyways, this thread isn't restricted to smoking, as it is the RE NEWS Lounge for the cool Resident cats to hang out, smoke, chill, think, discuss , let the hair down and sound off.

Its the end of my working week and i've just enjoyed a SuperKing whilst getting alllll caught up in this god chat...Time for another, as ever, The lounge plays some Cat pajamas music.

Remember kids, Smokers Die younger.........Just like my 80 odd your old chain smoking, Ex World war II veteran hard as nails Grandad did..........80 odd..... had it all in front of him as well....

This ones for you old boy.

 

[Jgraeme1979]

I smoke cigarettes (below) and pot