Smoke?

[La Femme Fatale]

I sometimes wonder if the health scares of smoking are grossy hyped by money men ? Like the post above, there is too many pensioners who have smoked from their teens and in good shape.

And for every one of those, you have people like both of my grandfathers... who never got a chance to meet their granddaughters because they smoked a pack a day and died of lung cancer related directly to their excessive smoking, each before their 50th birthdays.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but I'm getting somewhat frustrated with the glorification of this habit on this forum. I understand it looks 'cool' and I know it is addictive, but my family has not been so fortunate as some others in this regard, and it really upsets me to see people try to downplay the health risks.

 

[VP-70]

And for every one of those, you have people like both of my grandfathers... who never got a chance to meet their granddaughters because they smoked a pack a day and died of lung cancer related directly to their excessive smoking, each before their 50th birthdays.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but I'm getting frustrated somewhat with glorification of this habit on this forum. I understand it looks 'cool' and I know it is addictive, but my family have not been so fortunate as some others in this regard, and it really upsets me to see people try to downplay the health risks.

Freedom of speech is what it's all about here in the Smoke thread.

Thats what makes this thread truly cool, not the smoking it's self... smoking is simply a tool from an ancient pass time...To exchange ideas, thoughts, jokes, musings.. and what not, whilst in the smoke frame of mind.....

As for health risks...without brooding a dark shadow in what is due to be a beauty of a morning. Car crash, Cancer, Heart attack, Gun shot, suicide or a peaceful slumber....Our arses hit the canvas just the same...and life, is nothing but one big boogeyman under the bed...You gotta breathe in the air a little harder, look at the sun a little longer, laugh a little louder and refrain from ( fixing ) your hair every time the wind blows. What will be will be.

Speaking of warnings, i note that the Government is thinking about taking the ( warning ) labels off the smoke packets because they think the youngsters see the warnings as a trigger for rebellion. Personally, i approve this move, for i think such labels desmirch the art work of the packet.

Time for a tune.

 

[The_Green_King]

i know this thread is about cigs, but does anyone else here smoke bud? i know its "illegal" and i cant really condone it, but i cant be the only one here to toke haha.

back to tobacco, copenhagen just released a new snuff flavor called Southern Blend. anyone here try it? if so let me know what you think. i only dip occasionally, but im hoping to try it soon.

 

[Storyofmylife]

i know this thread is about cigs, but does anyone else here smoke bud? i know its "illegal" and i cant really condone it, but i cant be the only one here to toke haha.

back to tobacco, copenhagen just released a new snuff flavor called Southern Blend. anyone here try it? if so let me know what you think. i only dip occasionally, but im hoping to try it soon.

I enjoy some green every once and a while. It's hard to get your hands on it though since it is illegal, but I love me some kush, and purple nurple

 

[Angel]

And for every one of those, you have people like both of my grandfathers... who never got a chance to meet their granddaughters because they smoked a pack a day and died of lung cancer related directly to their excessive smoking, each before their 50th birthdays.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but I'm getting somewhat frustrated with the glorification of this habit on this forum. I understand it looks 'cool' and I know it is addictive, but my family has not been so fortunate as some others in this regard, and it really upsets me to see people try to downplay the health risks.

Here's something I've wanted to ask in light of this point - should smokers be given the same treatment as other patients when it comes to illnesses that are a direct result or exacerbated by their habit? If someone gets life-saving surgery on their lungs just to go right outside and light up again, should they have been given the treatment in the first place or should priority be those who have not brought it on themselves?

EDIT: just to give this question some sort of context, I'm a non-smoker myself but I have many close friends and family members who smoke a great deal so this isn't some "look at me I'm so great they should all die" sort of thing - I'm genuinely interested in some proper answers, if possible.

 

[VP-70]

Here's something I've wanted to ask in light of this point - should smokers be given the same treatment as other patients when it comes to illnesses that are a direct result or exacerbated by their habit? If someone gets life-saving surgery on their lungs just to go right outside and light up again, should they have been given the treatment in the first place or should priority be those who have not brought it on themselves?

EDIT: just to give this question some sort of context, I'm a non-smoker myself but I have many close friends and family members who smoke a great deal so this isn't some "look at me I'm so great they should all die" sort of thing - I'm genuinely interested in some proper answers, if possible.

Should Ambulance workers bother turning up for suicide attempts ?

Heres one more, whats the comparrison between the damage smoking does, to say, drinking ? What fills up the wards more on a weekend, smokers or idiots who can't handle their drink ?

The sheer Tax that is paid on such small pleasures in life, should counter balance any ( drain on resources ) argument that gets put forward..

 

[Angel]

Ambulance workers for suicide attempts isn't quite comparable, in my view. Suicide isn't a habit - you either die or you don't. And if you don't, you aren't just let back out without someone somewhere having a chat with you about why you felt the need to try and take your own life. I see what you're trying to say there but it's not in the same league as a lifestyle choice which could ultimately lead to many health problems later on in life.

Were this thread to be about drinking as well then of course the question posed would be just as applicable, in my view. Same with other substance misuse. The revenue side of things is actually nothing I would consider in this equation given that the tobacco industry gives the government a great deal of money (in this country at least - don't know about elsewhere) and the cost for the NHS is significantly less for treating preventable diseases and illnesses as a result of smoking. Therefore the argument anyone may put forward concerning the economic drain is kind of moot in this circumstance, I would say.

I'm thinking more in terms of if you knowingly and willingly cause harm to yourself via smoking (in this discussion, at least) then should you expect to be given the same treatment, preferences in terms of waiting lists etc and resources as non-smokers with the same illnesses/diseases? Forget the whole "I pay taxes" argument because that applies to pretty much anyone who pays them and is not the purpose of my question - from an ethical and perhaps moral point of view, is it even worth giving someone life-saving surgery or treatment for an illness if they're just going to go right back out there and carry on as they did before? Should that treatment not have been saved for someone else who is either at least willing and trying to stop smoking or someone who doesn't even smoke?

Really going out here but should a smoker even expect sympathy from others if his or her lifestyle choice makes them ill? Or makes others ill in the case of smoking parents who, aware of the risks to their kids, continue to smoke around them or during pregnancy and then are all up in arms when their kid gets sick as a result?

EDIT: This discussion, should it turn into one at all, is not meant to be a comparison between smoking and anything else that is considered hazardous to health - I'm only really interested in keeping it to just smoking.

 

[VP-70]

Ambulance workers for suicide attempts isn't quite comparable, in my view. Suicide isn't a habit - you either die or you don't. And if you don't, you aren't just let back out without someone somewhere having a chat with you about why you felt the need to try and take your own life. I see what you're trying to say there but it's not in the same league as a lifestyle choice which could ultimately lead to many health problems later on in life.

Were this thread to be about drinking as well then of course the question posed would be just as applicable, in my view. Same with other substance misuse. The revenue side of things is actually nothing I would consider in this equation given that the tobacco industry gives the government a great deal of money (in this country at least - don't know about elsewhere) and the cost for the NHS is significantly less for treating preventable diseases and illnesses as a result of smoking. Therefore the argument anyone may put forward concerning the economic drain is kind of moot in this circumstance, I would say.

I'm thinking more in terms of if you knowingly and willingly cause harm to yourself via smoking (in this discussion, at least) then should you expect to be given the same treatment, preferences in terms of waiting lists etc and resources as non-smokers with the same illnesses/diseases? Forget the whole "I pay taxes" argument because that applies to pretty much anyone who pays them and is not the purpose of my question - from an ethical and perhaps moral point of view, is it even worth giving someone life-saving surgery or treatment for an illness if they're just going to go right back out there and carry on as they did before? Should that treatment not have been saved for someone else who is either at least willing and trying to stop smoking or someone who doesn't even smoke?

Really going out here but should a smoker even expect sympathy from others if his or her lifestyle choice makes them ill? Or makes others ill in the case of smoking parents who, aware of the risks to their kids, continue to smoke around them or during pregnancy and then are all up in arms when their kid gets sick as a result?

EDIT: This discussion, should it turn into one at all, is not meant to be a comparison between smoking and anything else that is considered hazardous to health - I'm only really interested in keeping it to just smoking.

I suppose we could keep it to Smoking, but topics such as this, and new laws have a habit of opening multiple cans of worms... because the definition of such laws are flawed.

Lets say we take the idea of pushing smokers to the back of the line for '' life style '' choices...but it'll open up a can of worms, as logic takes a stroll into other areas, as it always does...like.. the Administration of HIV treatment....Thats a lifestyle choice....would you have them be pushed to the back of the line ?

It can't be restricted to ( smoke ) only, because such things have a ripple effect. The second we dictate who goes where in the waiting list, is the day we take our first steps back in time to 1940's Germany.

Ps, Just so you know Angel, my fellow moon worshipping, haribo munching Lychan...There is abslutely 0% of this getting heated, as i've all the heat i need today from the glorious sun, as i have my netbook out in the back garden with me, awaiting the arrival of my friends...there is an ice cubes chance in hell of any hassle.

 

[Angel]

HIV is not necessarily the result of a lifestyle choice, though. Ok, so thanks to blood screening you are very unlikely to get it in the UK from a transfusion but there are other ways of contracting it and it's not always because of willing sexual intercourse between knowingly-infected people/with a knowingly-infected person.

Smoking is not the same as an illness or disease which cannot be helped or cured - you can quit. It would no doubt be very hard but not impossible or else the government would not spend so much on trying to encourage people to stop and giving them ways of stopping.

Waiting lists are very specific, actually, when it comes to transplants for example. There has to be a strict criteria adhered to in order for a person to be considered viable. That's not 1940's Germany, that's common sense - distributing your resources according not only to the greatest need but also the most appropriate recipient in accordance with the necessary criteria.

The purpose of this discourse is not concerning laws or how healthcare systems should behave in reality - it's purely what different people think about the question and nothing more. I'm just interested in how people answer it from different perspectives. I know that's not usually how these sorts of discussions start - normally there is someone trying to make a specific point or get one over another person - but I'm too simple-minded for that sort of thing. I'm just interested in the different responses

 

[VP-70]

HIV is not necessarily the result of a lifestyle choice, though. Ok, so thanks to blood screening you are very unlikely to get it in the UK from a transfusion but there are other ways of contracting it and it's not always because of willing sexual intercourse between knowingly-infected people/with a knowingly-infected person.

Smoking is not the same as an illness or disease which cannot be helped or cured - you can quit. It would no doubt be very hard but not impossible or else the government would not spend so much on trying to encourage people to stop and giving them ways of stopping.

Waiting lists are very specific, actually, when it comes to transplants for example. There has to be a strict criteria adhered to in order for a person to be considered viable. That's not 1940's Germany, that's common sense - distributing your resources according not only to the greatest need but also the most appropriate recipient in accordance with the necessary criteria.

The purpose of this discourse is not concerning laws or how healthcare systems should behave in reality - it's purely what different people think about the question and nothing more. I'm just interested in how people answer it from different perspectives. I know that's not usually how these sorts of discussions start - normally there is someone trying to make a specific point or get one over another person - but I'm too simple-minded for that sort of thing. I'm just interested in the different responses

Well in that case, i'll join you in the stands, and lets see what the Residents bring to the table.

 

[KennedyKiller]

I enjoy some green every once and a while. It's hard to get your hands on it though since it is illegal, but I love me some kush, and purple nurple

Shoot...I only know Purple Nurple as a heavy mixed drink...

 

[Storyofmylife]

Shoot...I only know Purple Nurple as a heavy mixed drink...

Ahahaha, if you had the actual purple nurple you'd think you WERE a drink!

 

[La Femme Fatale]

Here's something I've wanted to ask in light of this point - should smokers be given the same treatment as other patients when it comes to illnesses that are a direct result or exacerbated by their habit? If someone gets life-saving surgery on their lungs just to go right outside and light up again, should they have been given the treatment in the first place or should priority be those who have not brought it on themselves?

EDIT: just to give this question some sort of context, I'm a non-smoker myself but I have many close friends and family members who smoke a great deal so this isn't some "look at me I'm so great they should all die" sort of thing - I'm genuinely interested in some proper answers, if possible.

In a Canadian context, yes. Absolutely. We all pay into the healthcare system through our taxes - so everyone, regardless of whether or not they were the cause of their own illness, is entitled to reek the benefits of that system. On that account I can't in good faith say that anyone should be exempt, regardless of whatever destructive habits they've acquired. Of course you'd like to say that people who deserve the treatment - people who are not responsible for their own illnesses - should get top priority, but unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.

Obviously, health insurance is a whole 'notha ball game.

from an ethical and perhaps moral point of view, is it even worth giving someone life-saving surgery or treatment for an illness if they're just going to go right back out there and carry on as they did before?

That's so hard to say. How do you determine if someone is going to continue their habit or not?

 

[The_Green_King]

Ahahaha, if you had the actual purple nurple you'd think you WERE a drink!

haha hell yeah!!! i have a friend who smoked some laced bud and thought he was a lizard. no joke!! we all knew it was laced, but only he wanted to try the **** that was on it. twas the best time ive ever had watching some one else smoke and me be sober lol.

 

[Storyofmylife]

haha hell yeah!!! i have a friend who smoked some laced bud and thought he was a lizard. no joke!! we all knew it was laced, but only he wanted to try the **** that was on it. twas the best time ive ever had watching some one else smoke and me be sober lol.

I had a bad time with laced pot once. It was horrible... I was hallucinating and had a card board cut out of the Joker in my room that I supposedly spoke to for 5 hours. Crazy. LOL

 

[VP-70]

I had a bad time with laced pot once. It was horrible... I was hallucinating and had a card board cut out of the Joker in my room that I supposedly spoke to for 5 hours. Crazy. LOL

I remember one of my Hallucinations.

I had an old Braveheart prop hanging on my wall years ago, ( his sword ) And whilst i began to Hallucinate whilst suffering from a bad fever.

I saw the sheath of the sword extend down the wall, turn black, scaly, with a hissing sound as it turned into a massive black Anaconda with blood red eyes.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh how i jumped!

I saw that it slid under my covers to where a pillow was, so with everything i had, i Luthas pressed it and just started pounding away....My old man threw the door wide open as my room was filled with nothing but screaming/swearing and war cries lol !!!!!

The thing is, that event took place after a dream i had, you know, the dreams where you dream of waking up...yea, total mind ****.
It was that experience that sparked my interest in Pyschology and Dreams.

 

[The_Green_King]

I remember one of my Hallucinations.

I had an old Braveheart prop hanging on my wall years ago, ( his sword ) And whilst i began to Hallucinate whilst suffering from a bad fever.

I saw the sheath of the sword extend down the wall, turn black, scaly, with a hissing sound as it turned into a massive black Anaconda with blood red eyes.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh how i jumped!

I saw that it slid under my covers to where a pillow was, so with everything i had, i Luthas pressed it and just started pounding away....My old man threw the door wide open as my room was filled with nothing but screaming/swearing and war cries lol !!!!!

The thing is, that event took place after a dream i had, you know, the dreams where you dream of waking up...yea, total mind ****.
It was that experience that sparked my interest in Pyschology and Dreams.

yeah, i didnt get into psychology untill i started smoking/tripping. the human mind is extremely fascinating in what it can do.

 

[Jgraeme1979]

I tend to just get the munchies when I smoke pot, my partner usually gets very talkative though

 

[KennedyKiller]

haha hell yeah!!! i have a friend who smoked some laced bud and thought he was a lizard. no joke!! we all knew it was laced, but only he wanted to try the **** that was on it. twas the best time ive ever had watching some one else smoke and me be sober lol.

It's been my experience that most of the time it's actually MORE fun to stay sober while you watch your friends get fu*ked up lol...

 

[VP-70]

It's been my experience that most of the time it's actually MORE fun to stay sober while you watch your friends get fu*ked up lol...

I tend to get frustrated when in that situation, as i feel that i can't leave them to their own devices as i think they'll end up hurting themselves. When sober, i always make sure everyone makes it home safely... weird but true.