American Adults...!

[La Femme Fatale]

I'm definitely not a proponent of raising the voting age - I think 18 is pretty decent, I know when I was 18 I was making much more informed voting decisions than my twenty-odd something cousins, lol. Besides, I don't like the idea of being able to die for your country younger than you're allowed to vote in it. I think it needs to be the same age.

 

[Angel]

I suppose it just troubles me slightly when I look at those around me soon to reach voting age and think, "wow - can you put that bottle/joint/other teenager down for two minutes to get yourself educated enough to make a sensible and informed decision about the future of our country?" Unless you choose to take politics in school (which, hilariously enough, is only usually available once you are in further education, which in itself is optional) or spend time researching into it, you're not going to get enough of an idea of how a country is run in order to make decisions about which government and policies to go for.

Unless you are someone who has an interest in politics and makes a point of carefully paying attention to everything during the run-up to election day...I dunno. Politics seems to be synonymous with boredom to a lot of young people and my overall concern is that they grow up to either not care, not vote because they think it's pointless or else be told by other people who they should vote for - which is the worst option, IMO.

It's difficult to put an age limit on voting, in my view, because no matter what, you are going to get morons with the right to a say in how the country is run. I was sent a link to a video the other day by someone in their 80's - it was one of those done by Nick van Riel (google him if you really want to know who he is and what he stands for) and whilst a lot of what was being said was true factually, it was presented in a very almost-Nazi-esque kind of way...it actually made me feel rather uncomfortable and I wasn't quite sure what to make of it afterwards. But it portrayed a lot of what many in Britain are currently feeling about immigration, taxes, muslims etc. And it's these people who have the right to vote and could potentially get a group like the BNP in power. It's come close before and many of the voters are those whose parents vote the same way, or all their peer group vote - rarely does it seem to be the result of careful consideration and information from all sides.

I know there's a degree of spin to be expected - it's politics, after all - but I'm thinking we ought to spend at least some time educating the future generations about the different government groups, policies, what agendas really mean, a bit of political history etc. I mean, there are so many people who have refused to vote conservative because of what Margaret Thatcher did to the working classes back in the 80's. No one is telling them of the good things she did, just the mining stuff, taking away school milk, selling off housing to the private sector. Maybe it isn't even something that can be taught objectively enough? I don't know...

 

[La Femme Fatale]

Yeah, but I think you get alot of that regardless of age. I have alot of older family members who won't watch a single debate or anything related to politics, but will still go to the polls and vote Conservative because that's what they've done for decades. They're definitely people who are incredibly ill-informed but still vote at any age.

Why I am inclined to agree that the voting age should be 18 is because I think it's important that college-aged people are allowed to vote. Not all kids are sitting around smoking dubes all the time. I spent the past five years in a university environment and I don't think I've seen more enthusiastic voters and citizens than post-secondary school students. I remember our building having their own debates and every single class around that time would be just one big discussion about the party platforms. These kids knew their stuff and there are certainly some issues, like rising tuition rates (which were and still are a huge problem when kids are starting their independant lives $40,000 in debt from school), that students should have a say in.

I mean, sure, we'd all like to put some kind of IQ or knowledge requirement on voting eligibility but that would be pretty inconsistant with democratic ideology. All we can do is educate ourselves on the platforms to the best of our ability and share that with others.

 

[TYLERDM94]

i got into politics through my AP Government class at first i didnt like the class but the more and more i learned about the history surrounding politics and all the debates we did caused me to want to learn more and more about the election and to start caring about what happens to my country

 

[AgentZero]

I honestly think people need to give Obama a break. You expected him to be some sort of miracle when you voted him in and then, when things didn't change immediately, you got angry; our country is in such a mess that it's not going to magically get better overnight, or in a mere four years for that matter. Obama stepped into this mess, a preexisting mess, he didn't make it, and he hasn't done a terrible job with it.

Changing our country for the better is only going to happen through hard work over time and the only way we'll see the true, lasting effects of Obama's leadership is to have other like-minded presidents in office after his term but I can guarantee that won't happen because idiots are so hung up on this political party **** that it's like they don't even care about the issues anymore. So many people vote a straight ticket because they're Republican or Democrat that I'm caught between laughing it off or being very scared for the future.

But Obama was president for four years and hardly did a D*** thing.

 

[La Femme Fatale]

Hun, you really need to know what you are talking about before making incredibly general statements like that because it doesn't reflect terribly well on yourself, your credibility or your argument. I'm linking you to a non-partisan website that has tracked Obama's accomplishments and failures since taking office in 2008.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

Read up.

 

[Angel]

All we can do is educate ourselves on the platforms to the best of our ability and share that with others.

I agree - I just feel that if we can encourage people at an earlier age than the permitted voting bracket to get interested in the politics that affects them, their country and their future lives, then we might just get more informed voters for the future. The culture over here in the UK appears to be one of "as soon as you hit 18, you'll magically know who and what to vote for. Until then, keep your opinions to yourself unless someone gives them to you". Which is daft.

Maybe it's just the demographic each of us see around us each day - you've seen people willing and able to get involved. I see disenfranchised, apathetic and messed-up individuals who have left school with barely a qualification between three of them. It's not a sweeping all-encompassing statement about younger people because that would be unfair and untrue - it's just what I see in the immediate vicinity where I live. Their parents don't vote and they don't vote and all we get in the local paper is "only X% of residents turned out for the elections this year" and people then writing in to lament about the state of the town, region and country.

I personally see it as my responsibility, not just my right, to vote. I will encourage my kids to do the same. I'm wondering though that perhaps the main reason people do not vote is because, as Magnolia said, they don't feel it makes a difference or that all politicians lie regardless?

 

[L]

But Obama was president for four years and hardly did a D*** thing.

You're hardly educated on political issues. You don't understand the value of money. You're a child, and so am I. The only reason I slightly know about this is because my school is teaching us about this stuff. If you were to bring up some facts with a reputable source, maybe I'd be inclined to believe your very, very blank statement.

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

Politics... man. Politics again. I'm too lazy to quote the specifics, but people avoid it for a good reason. Everyone sounds justified in politics-- and everyone thinks they are. The truth is that six months ago I knew exactly how I felt politically and now I'm in no man's land once again. It'll definitely happen once more before I'm done on this planet. That's the main reason I would ever think to avoid news outlets-- it's exhausting to constantly keep up with every little thing. The people arguing the opposite will no doubt have points and arguments that you've never heard before or considered. Democrat or Republican: am I an ass for not respecting people's individual success by wanting to tax them more or am I unsympathetic to the poor for letting the wealthy keep all their wealth? The grass is always greener. You will disappoint someone no matter which one you choose.

The worst part is that I love talking politics. I adore it. I like the idea that there's a right answer and we're just hopelessly bad at finding it. After all-- if a politician has to make a decision between two opposites, isn't one outcome preferable to the other? There has to be a right answer somewhere.

The problem is that most people I end up talking to are too emotionally invested. They get frustrated. Yes, politics is as real-world and serious as anything you could hope to talk about, but it is still an abstract thing. You won't notice the extra 3 cents of tax on a bottled soda and say "CURSE the day I voted yes on that new public school tax levy!" I'm tired of talking to people who can't handle being disagreed with and feel the need to insult me or call me an ignoramus because I get my news from different sources. I'm done telling people I like Obama because they can't fathom how an intelligent human being could arrive at that conclusion. Yes, I know he signed the martial law bill. Yes, I know what CISPA is. Yes, I know that Guantanamo Bay was never really closed. I guess that because I like him despite all of these things, I clearly must deserve to be called some sort of idiot. How dare I.

With such a wide spectrum of intelligence and opinion, how could we impose some sort of IQ test on a voting booth? There'd just be no way. Anyway, the person who proposes such a test is embodying the enemy of a voting system to begin with-- they are assuming that due to their position of power, they know more about what's good for people than people do for themselves. Anyway, if the majority of the population is stupid and constantly votes in the wrong directions, then don't they deserve the stupid government they imposed on themselves? Yes, some smart people might be uncomfortable living in such a place, but then maybe they would be happier if they moved somewhere else? That's the whole idea behind democracy, as I understand it.

 

[Loki]

Have you seen this poll? Out of all these countries only Pakistan wanted Romney to be elected.

 

[LordGolbez]

I honestly think people need to give Obama a break. You expected him to be some sort of miracle when you voted him in and then, when things didn't change immediately, you got angry; our country is in such a mess that it's not going to magically get better overnight, or in a mere four years for that matter. Obama stepped into this mess, a preexisting mess, he didn't make it, and he hasn't done a terrible job with it.

Changing our country for the better is only going to happen through hard work over time and the only way we'll see the true, lasting effects of Obama's leadership is to have other like-minded presidents in office after his term but I can guarantee that won't happen because idiots are so hung up on this political party **** that it's like they don't even care about the issues anymore. So many people vote a straight ticket because they're Republican or Democrat that I'm caught between laughing it off and being very scared for the future.

Agreed, what a lot of people don't seem to understand is that this has been building up since Reagan's term. Go back and look at some of he guys he had in his cabinet, they were former execs of Goldman Sachs, for those who don't know they are a bigwig investment and banking firm. They helped to make laws that benefited their supposedly "former" employees. Reagan was a good president but he did short-term fixes, it continued with Bush Sr. And as much as I liked Clinton he played a role as well. Anybody remember NAFTA and the bank deregulation at the end of his term? The deregulation pretty much let the banks do whatever they wanted which was a big reason we got into this mess.

This is going to take sometime to fix and we need more than one president to fix everything because it happened on more than one man's watch. The two-party system personally needs to die. It limits our choices and we become divided along party lines and start to hate each other for stupid reasons instead of working together to solve our problems.

 

[TYLERDM94]

Agreed, what a lot of people don't seem to understand is that this has been building up since Reagan's term. Go back and look at some of he guys he had in his cabinet, they were former execs of Goldman Sachs, for those who don't know they are a bigwig investment and banking firm. They helped to make laws that benefited their supposedly "former" employees. Reagan was a good president but he did short-term fixes, it continued with Bush Sr. And as much as I liked Clinton he played a role as well. Anybody remember NAFTA and the bank deregulation at the end of his term? The deregulation pretty much let the banks do whatever they wanted which was a big reason we got into this mess.

This is going to take sometime to fix and we need more than one president to fix everything because it happened on more than one man's watch. The two-party system personally needs to die. It limits our choices and we become divided along party lines and start to hate each other for stupid reasons instead of working together to solve our problems.

agreed my friend we need a system where everyone gets along so that we can get the problem fixed faster

 

[Springhosen]

Agreed, what a lot of people don't seem to understand is that this has been building up since Reagan's term. Go back and look at some of he guys he had in his cabinet, they were former execs of Goldman Sachs, for those who don't know they are a bigwig investment and banking firm. They helped to make laws that benefited their supposedly "former" employees. Reagan was a good president but he did short-term fixes, it continued with Bush Sr. And as much as I liked Clinton he played a role as well. Anybody remember NAFTA and the bank deregulation at the end of his term? The deregulation pretty much let the banks do whatever they wanted which was a big reason we got into this mess.

This is going to take sometime to fix and we need more than one president to fix everything because it happened on more than one man's watch. The two-party system personally needs to die. It limits our choices and we become divided along party lines and start to hate each other for stupid reasons instead of working together to solve our problems.

Exactly! Now it's just a war. The next Republican president will do nothing throughout his term but take steps to undo what Obama did and then the next Democrat will do nothing but try and undo that process and so on and so on; the issue of what our country has become and all the problems we have will be completely forgotten in the effort to one-up one another.

Washington warned against it and it quickly proved itself to be true:

However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.

And so they have.

 

[Romero]

See, here's what gets me to thinking (as the UK has the same age limit) - would it be better to raise the age to, say, 21 or possibly higher? Or keep it low where it is?

It is 18 and I think they could try to turn that number around. Make it 81! That should keep the country conservative enough...

I'm definitely not a proponent of raising the voting age - I think 18 is pretty decent, I know when I was 18 I was making much more informed voting decisions than my twenty-odd something cousins, lol. Besides, I don't like the idea of being able to die for your country younger than you're allowed to vote in it. I think it needs to be the same age.

That is a good point; if you are able to die for your country then you should have the right to vote! But I also happen to think that 18 yr olds should not be able to die for their country. That age limit should be 20 or 21. Being a soldier in a war zone is more difficult than you might think, you need more than just fighting skills. It also takes a lot of judgment and maturity to deal with all sorts of situations, and few teens are as good at that as older soldiers with more life experience. The ideal age is actually 25-35 (not officers). Also, older soldiers are less likely to suffer mental damage. I definitely think the age limit for war and peace-keeping operations should be 21.
I think it would be less scandals and stories about war crimes too.

In the light of this, it would not be so wrong to raise the age limit for voting to 19, 20 or 21 years.

Younger people are also more susceptible to simply vote whatever their parents or friends vote.

But on the other hand, I know old people who are stuck in their voting habits, they just vote that same party as they have done every time the last 40, 50 or 60 years. They may have done very informed voting decisions back then, but the world has changed, the problems have changed and so have all the parties. Nothing is the same, just their voting habit is.
I'm not saying that all old people who have voted the same party for 50 years are making ill-informed voting decisions, but many are clueless.

So maybe there should be an upper limit too.

Agreed, what a lot of people don't seem to understand is that this has been building up since Reagan's term. Go back and look at some of he guys he had in his cabinet, they were former execs of Goldman Sachs, for those who don't know they are a bigwig investment and banking firm. They helped to make laws that benefited their supposedly "former" employees. Reagan was a good president but he did short-term fixes, it continued with Bush Sr. And as much as I liked Clinton he played a role as well. Anybody remember NAFTA and the bank deregulation at the end of his term? The deregulation pretty much let the banks do whatever they wanted which was a big reason we got into this mess.

You don't happen to remember the name of that law, the law that said American banks had to offer sub-prime loans? That started back in the 70s, I'm not sure if it was during Ford's or Carter's presidency.
There's not just one cause for the problems, but that law is part of it.
Another big cause is the low interest rates the last 20 years thanks to Fed and Alan Greenspan.

 

[Sonnentreppe]

Ah, ****. I did not intend for this to become a political debate. Oopsie.

Anyway, I'm glad about the outcome. I figured Obama would win, but more importantly, the biggest winner of the night was LGBT rights with the marriage equality wins, the first openly gay senator, etc. I'm very happy for that.

 

[La Femme Fatale]

It's actually overwhelmingly civil for a political debate, lol.

 

[AgentZero]

Hun, you really need to know what you are talking about before making incredibly general statements like that because it doesn't reflect terribly well on yourself, your credibility or your argument. I'm linking you to a non-partisan website that has tracked Obama's accomplishments and failures since taking office in 2008.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

Read up.

I read this and perhaps I didn't give Obama the credit I should have. (I have just recently started getting in to this stuff about a month ago so yeah...) However, my views still say Romney should have won. And also, he succeeded in increasing size of foreign service? Isn't the goal to keep foreigners out?

 

[Hoady]

Honestly, i don't believe the realm of politics has any true effect on how the world really works. Who gets elected i say must have about 15% influence of actually changing things and none of these effects are very drastic, a law,war or budget here or there, thats frame of thinking doesn't extend beyond the current social norm" I like gays..I don't like gays..I support abortion..I don't like abortion...I say more jobs..I agree on more jobs." This is some real bronze age ****. How about the talk of liberating people from there jobs because of the very real reality of technological unemployment?

I'd like one of these guys to propose something that would actually have relevance to human health.How often do you see statistics from governments showing the happiness of a nation and its individuals and how to improve that? Instead we tend to only focus on looking towards GDP and money to improve society. A none of the above option or propose an alternative solution would be nice. I'm not American but the 2 party system pretty much works the same here.

 

[Mr Sunshine]

I don't think the voting age limit has to do with ones capability to make a proper decision. From the points above it's concluded that people can choose the same candidate whether they do a lot, little or none research. It basicly has no effect on the eventual outcome of an election. Or to say it better the effect is totally random.

The way I see it you get your right to vote the day your society considers you an adult, not because you suddenly became wiser but because as an adult you can blame the older generations no more for the current situation of your country. You share responsibility too now. Go work. Go vote. Do something.

 

[La Femme Fatale]

I actually have a question, and perhaps it's a bit off topic but I wanted the answers to be in relation to the legal voting age in one's own country - do you think we should be able to vote before or after we're at the legal age in which to operate a motor vehicle?

If we're not considered 'adult' enough to vote in our country's elections at 18, what is it that makes us adult enough to be able to drive at 16?