RE characters ages: 2019

[Hel]

@KennedyKiller No idea why you suddenly jump at me out of nowhere like you caught me peeing on your bed, but you are obviously the one who is angry here, not me. I don't have proof for any of my claims, neither do you for yours, which is technically a good base for a discussion, but not in a tone like that. I'm not your punching bag, and if you want to shut me up, the only way is to put me on Ignore.

 

[KennedyKiller]

@KennedyKiller No idea why you suddenly jump at me out of nowhere like you caught me peeing on your bed, but you are obviously the one who is angry here, not me. I don't have proof for any of my claims, neither do you for yours, which is technically a good base for a discussion, but not in a tone like that. I'm not your punching bag, and if you want to shut me up, the only way is to put me on Ignore.

How is it "Out of Nowhere?" You made a couple comments, which came off as condescending and preachy, on a thread I was reading. I finished reading everything, then gave my opinion. And in any discussion where someone makes a claim, it is not the job of the defense to prove your claim is false. It is the job of the party making the point, to prove their point has merit. You haven't done that, and none of us need to refute a lack of evidence. Rather, just point out that your condescending accusation warrants a response to tell you, in the politest term I can muster, "Get over your outrage mentality, focus on real problems, and realize not everything is an attack on gender and the 0's and 1's that make up these fictional character that look like humans are not getting treated unfairly."

 

[Turo602]

Now I see why people get a kick out of this.

*grabs popcorn*

 

[Jonipoon]

@Jonipoon Ok, if you want to see people "like me" campaigning for a conventionally unattractive cast (I dislike the word "ugly"), just scroll up and you'll find me nagging about Alex Wesker not looking the age she's supposed to be, probably not least because that would have made her less attractive to (straight male) players. And since we're already talking about it, I find it worrying that Hollywood always seems to prefer casting picture-perfect 30-year-old actors with ridiculously well-toned bodies and not a single sign of acne in their faces to play teenagers half their ages in movies, because most normal teenagers don't actually look like that and might develop inferiority complexes for thinking that they should.

No need to educate me on the differences between the sexes, I know that some people are really overdoing it with this modern idea of 534 different genders, each with their own designer pronouns that everybody should naturally know by heart, but experience has taught me that the world also isn't as black and white as detractors of that idea like to paint it. But I'll stop before this gets political, what I mean is: If a gender-flipped version of The Last of Us would really have resulted in a completely different story than what the developers had invisioned, even though I don't believe that, fine by me. As a writer myself, I would never tell another writer what story they should have gone for instead of what they delivered, because I wouldn't let anyone ever do that to me either. But the real question is, why does no one tell that completely different story? I'm glad to hear that you would be fine with a 50-year-old female protagonist, but can you honestly argue with me about the fact that there simply is no such thing at the moment?

I absolutely could've used the word "less attractive", I don't know, English is not my first language so sometimes I just translate stuff directly.

But Alex Wesker is... well, not completely human anymore, is she? Supernatural humans in all fiction generally tend to look young forever, regardless of the sex, so I don't think Alex is some sort of missed opportunity that was deliberately made to look younger to "appease straight male players". Besides, women like to look at attractive women too. Likewise, even if guys don't wanna admit it, they like to look at attractive men too. I actually don't find it that worrying, it's only natural. If you want an example of a famous male video game character who doesn't look his age, look at Geralt from the Witcher games - he's supposed to be 90 years old but looks like he's in his late 30's because of "mutagens".

Like I said I would've been fine with a completely different story for The Last of Us, too. And I absolutely agree on the fact that a writer's work is sacred and shouldn't be questioned too much, especially if its exquisite work. But when it comes to that 50 year-old female protagonist thing, let me just say one thing - it's only up until quite recently that we've seen 50+ male protagonists in AAA video games like Old Snake, Joel and Kratos. Change always takes time, and because of that I would say that we're not far away from getting a female one. But just because I would be down for playing that, doesn't mean everyone will, and in the end money will be the only thing that matters.

 

[Jonipoon]

Now I see why people get a kick out of this.

*grabs popcorn*

I love forums where heated discussion is allowed as long as its well-structured. To quote Merovingian: "It's like wiping your arse with silk. I love it."

 

[Romero]

Some temperature must be tolerated, but don't make it so heated it gets personal. Some times you can get annoyed but you are also adults and knows how to not escalate things.

Some nice posts in this thread. Keep it cool.

 

[Hel]

Cool is always good, @Romero! :biggrin: I'm sorry if my words sounded harsher than I had intended, I can only assure everybody that I'm not the radical feminist that I apparently came across as, and I'm not actively seeking out discrimination to stir up controversy. The lack of older female protagonists is just a topic I've been quietly observing for a few years now, and I felt that this was an appropriate thread to address it.

But Alex Wesker is... well, not completely human anymore, is she? Supernatural humans in all fiction generally tend to look young forever, regardless of the sex, so I don't think Alex is some sort of missed opportunity that was deliberately made to look younger to "appease straight male players". Besides, women like to look at attractive women too. Likewise, even if guys don't wanna admit it, they like to look at attractive men too.

Trust me, I know! And it's not like I don't enjoy playing as good-looking young men myself, or women for that matter... :redface:

As for Alex, I don't think she's any more supernatural than Albert was, probably just vainer. That red colour on her lips didn't come from a virus, and while there's nothing wrong with makeup, it just strikes me as odd in her case. The woman is dying from a disease and in a hurry to get her experiment to work so she can transplant her mind and live on, but somehow has time to waste on the beauty of a face that she thinks she won't be using for much longer? Look at how messy Annette looks in REmake 2, that's more how I imagined Alex when the camera crew constantly went out of their way to hide her face like there's something wrong with it, and then you finally see it in Claire's last episode and it looks totally normal. But I'm getting carried away now...

Anyway:

Change always takes time, and because of that I would say that we're not far away from getting a female one.

You're right. And I realise I just mentioned Annette, whose age I don't know, but she's not dressed up like she's about to leave for a ball, so maybe we're already (albeit slowly) getting there after all. Time will tell.

 

[Jonipoon]

Well I actually thought Annette looked pretty nice the remake.

 

[UniqTeas]

I am just surprised to see such lengthy arguments and Turo not being one of the arguers. haha.

I think there is definitely room for more older women in games. They don't appeal to the target demographics of most games, but it is up to teh industry to create unique experiences and open up unique characters to those demographics. A good character and a good game are all you need and age or gender can be used to create those roles in any capacity.

 

[Turo602]

I am just surprised to see such lengthy arguments and Turo not being one of the arguers. haha.

I'm almost proud in a way.

 

[UniqTeas]

Your reputation precedes you. I love a day when I log in and there are 7-50 paragraphs and arguments going on. Gives me a good read on a slow day. haha

 

[Romero]

The lack of older female protagonists is just a topic I've been quietly observing for a few years now, and I felt that this was an appropriate thread to address it.

If I could like your post twice I would.
I totally agree with you and this is also one of many reasons why I loved Xena The Warrior Princess (TV series).

Trust me, I know! And it's not like I don't enjoy playing as good-looking young men myself, or women for that matter... :redface:

Haha this is so cute. :smile:

 

[bSTAR_182]

I’m late for this party but I feel like my comment got the ball rolling on the subject.

I’m definitely not an overt feminist and really never had any issues with TLOU having an older male character paired with a young girl (though would it be interesting to see Tess in place of Joel- yes!). I love that game to bits and I think Naughty Dog does a fantastic job with aging their characters. Tess and Marlene are clearly older in age and a bit rough due to circumstances. Naughty Dog even does a good job aging both male and female character in the Uncharted series.

That being said, as a female gamer hitting her 30s next year, the lack of older female characters utilized in RE is something I (and apparently other gamers on here) can’t help but notice Capcom strays away from.

Nearly every single leading female character is young. Frankly the entire STARS officers are ridiculously young to have accomplished being on a “SWAT” team. You will find more individuals in their 30s, rather than 18 year olds like Rebecca, working a job like that.
As Hel pointed out previously; we have a young Helena, partnered up with Leon, Sheva being 23 years old who is teamed up with an older Chris. Let’s not forget Jessica and Rachel in Revelations and, meanwhile, Jill gets paired up with a chubby, middle age Parker. Then of course there is RE7 with Zoe and Mia.

I will give Capcom credit for aging Ada properly in RE6 and also the route they took with Alex Wesker. An older Claire in Rev2 was also satisfying even though she could have used a bit more edge. I’ll even give you Marguerite Baker and that still doesn’t compare to the amount of older males featured in the games.

I’m not trying to be obnoxious with this but the different ratio of older male characters versus older female characters featured in the RE games is evident.

This is also a glaring issue for casting in Hollywood too. You really don’t see too many actresses in their late 30s, 40s, or 50s playing too many exciting/heroic roles outside of so-and-so’s mom.

As stated above, though, change does take time and maybe we will begin to see more older female characters featured in future installments.


In regards to Alex being concerned with her looks and wearing makeup, I think it makes sense seeing as she is fighting to maintain her youth and discover some form of immortality.

 

[KennedyKiller]

I’m late for this party but I feel like my comment got the ball rolling on the subject.

I’m definitely not an overt feminist and really never had any issues with TLOU having an older male character paired with a young girl (though would it be interesting to see Tess in place of Joel- yes!). I love that game to bits and I think Naughty Dog does a fantastic job with aging their characters. Tess and Marlene are clearly older in age and a bit rough due to circumstances. Naughty Dog even does a good job aging both male and female character in the Uncharted series.

That being said, as a female gamer hitting her 30s next year, the lack of older female characters utilized in RE is something I (and apparently other gamers on here) can’t help but notice Capcom strays away from.

Nearly every single leading female character is young. Frankly the entire STARS officers are ridiculously young to have accomplished being on a “SWAT” team. You will find more individuals in their 30s, rather than 18 year olds like Rebecca, working a job like that.
As Hel pointed out previously; we have a young Helena, partnered up with Leon, Sheva being 23 years old who is teamed up with an older Chris. Let’s not forget Jessica and Rachel in Revelations and, meanwhile, Jill gets paired up with a chubby, middle age Parker. Then of course there is RE7 with Zoe and Mia.

I will give Capcom credit for Alex aging Ada properly in RE6 and also the route the took with Alex Wesker. An older Claire in Rev2 was also satisfying even though she could have used a bit more edge. I’ll even give you Marguerite Baker and that still doesn’t compare to the amount of older males featured in the games.

I’m not trying to be obnoxious with this but the different ratio of older male characters versus older female characters featured in the RE games is evident.

This is also a glaring issue for casting in Hollywood too. You really don’t see too many actresses in their late 30s, 40s, or 50s playing too many exciting/heroic roles outside of so-and-so’s mom.

As stated above, though, change does take time and maybe we will begin to see more older female characters featured in future installments.


In regards to Alex being concerned with her looks and wearing makeup, I think it makes sense seeing as she is fighting to maintain her youth and discover some form of immortality.

I'm not saying you're off base here. In fact, I liked a lot of your points. That said, I'm not quite sure I follow. I'm confused as to why the ratio is a problem? I mean, you gave a list of 3 older female characters, plus I'd even through Jill in there since she was 35 in RE5. I think the problem is there's a detail that's not being looked at. Anytime RE introduces a new character that they're hoping will be in future, games, they're ALWAYS young, male or female, but pair them with older cast members to draw in longtime fans.

Piers - Young (And remember, he was originally gonna take Chris's place until Capcom chickened out and killed him off instead. New young face, who was going to be young, alongside older character.)

Moira - Young female, but paired with an older female. Presumably they'll use her in future installments, or at least the option is there now.

Jake - Jake is young, at only 22 in the time of his appearance, and he looks it. I mean, he looked hardened, cause he's a mercenary, but he's no Chris or Leon. Sherry and him look about the same age, and you may argue that that's a problem, but I still don't think so, considering she's still far younger than Leon and co. and could easily have become one of the new main cast.

Basically almost every instance of "Young girl being paired with old guy" or even young GUY paired with older guy in Chris's case, was most likely used as a way to bring in new, Fresh faces, most of which happened in RE6, which ended up being a COLOSSAL failure, causing Capcom to change plans. As we saw with RE7.

Hell, RE6 even established 2 new potential main males, and main females, just like RE1 and 2 gave us. You have Piers and Helena to represent Chris and Jill, and Sherry and Jake to be Leon and Claire. But that just...Didn't happen. So I wouldn't call it a representation issue, as much as I would a failed plan because Capcom wrote a cheesy, ****ty story, paired with awful gameplay (According to most people at least. I like RE6. Anyway.)

Also, while we're at it, I could even throw out one more older female character...Excella Gionne. She definitley wasn't a "young" female. She was a powerful business tycoon. Sure, according to Canon, she was only 26 in RE5. But...look at that character model. She was mid 30's MINIMUM. Hell, Helena looks late 20's to early 30's for that matter. I think Capcom is just sh*tty at picking dates. You hear "This character was born in 1983, and you think, damn, they're probably in their 30's or 40's. Nope. 20's canonically. Excella in RE5 looks a couple decades older than Sherry in RE6, but is actually close to the same age. I'd lean more towards poor character design than lack of representation.

 

[bSTAR_182]

I'm not saying you're off base here. In fact, I liked a lot of your points. That said, I'm not quite sure I follow. I'm confused as to why the ratio is a problem? I mean, you gave a list of 3 older female characters, plus I'd even through Jill in there since she was 35 in RE5. I think the problem is there's a detail that's not being looked at. Anytime RE introduces a new character that they're hoping will be in future, games, they're ALWAYS young, male or female, but pair them with older cast members to draw in longtime fans.

Piers - Young (And remember, he was originally gonna take Chris's place until Capcom chickened out and killed him off instead. New young face, who was going to be young, alongside older character.)

Moira - Young female, but paired with an older female. Presumably they'll use her in future installments, or at least the option is there now.

Jake - Jake is young, at only 22 in the time of his appearance, and he looks it. I mean, he looked hardened, cause he's a mercenary, but he's no Chris or Leon. Sherry and him look about the same age, and you may argue that that's a problem, but I still don't think so, considering she's still far younger than Leon and co. and could easily have become one of the new main cast.

Basically almost every instance of "Young girl being paired with old guy" or even young GUY paired with older guy in Chris's case, was most likely used as a way to bring in new, Fresh faces, most of which happened in RE6, which ended up being a COLOSSAL failure, causing Capcom to change plans. As we saw with RE7.

Hell, RE6 even established 2 new potential main males, and main females, just like RE1 and 2 gave us. You have Piers and Helena to represent Chris and Jill, and Sherry and Jake to be Leon and Claire. But that just...Didn't happen. So I wouldn't call it a representation issue, as much as I would a failed plan because Capcom wrote a cheesy, ****ty story, paired with awful gameplay (According to most people at least. I like RE6. Anyway.)

Also, while we're at it, I could even throw out one more older female character...Excella Gionne. She definitley wasn't a "young" female. She was a powerful business tycoon. Sure, according to Canon, she was only 26 in RE5. But...look at that character model. She was mid 30's MINIMUM. Hell, Helena looks late 20's to early 30's for that matter. I think Capcom is just sh*tty at picking dates. You hear "This character was born in 1983, and you think, damn, they're probably in their 30's or 40's. Nope. 20's canonically. Excella in RE5 looks a couple decades older than Sherry in RE6, but is actually close to the same age. I'd lean more towards poor character design than lack of representation.

Sure you can argue that Excella looks older, but Capcom's intent was to depict yet another young female in their game instead of allowing her to be an older, successful, business woman. I'm falling down a rabbit hole here but it is a thing where various movies/television shows/video games feel compelled to depict a younger female instead of an older and more successful one- even when it would make more sense for them to be older.


The ratio of older female characters I guess isn't so much of a problem, but rather their poor handling of character development as well as coming up with new and interesting characters (both male and female alike). I don't really think Capcom is being overtly sexist but it does look bad.
I get the importance of introducing newer characters into the mix, and you do have a point that Capcom is trying this with both male and female characters, but they are going about it the wrong way. They're more concerned with how they can carry on the series with a fresh face, rather than proper storytelling that ties storylines together. Instead of giving older characters proper closure by allowing the series to come full circle, they are constantly looking for a way to replace them and rehash storylines which cheapens the entire experience.

The fact that I think Revaltions 2's story is a huge step forward for the series (with a villain who is so well written and is actually an older female), and we have yet to hear any word on a follow up to its story (or Jill for that matter) is extremely disappointing. I guess time will only tell though, maybe Capcom will surprise us with something that follows up on both Alex and Jill.

 

[KennedyKiller]

The ratio of older female characters I guess isn't so much of a problem, but rather their poor handling of character development as well as coming up with new and interesting characters (both male and female alike). I don't really think Capcom is being overtly sexist but it does look bad.
I get the importance of introducing newer characters into the mix, and you do have a point that Capcom is trying this with both male and female characters, but they are going about it the wrong way. They're more concerned with how they can carry on the series with a fresh face, rather than proper storytelling that ties storylines together. Instead of giving older characters proper closure by allowing the series to come full circle, they are constantly looking for a way to replace them and rehash storylines which cheapens the entire experience.

The fact that I think Revaltions 2's story is a huge step forward for the series, and we have yet to hear any word on a follow up to its story (or Jill for that matter) is extremely disappointing as it offers so much.

I can definitely agree in a way here. I think giving Chris the heroes death in RE6 would have been perfect. Capcom REALLY dropped the ball there. And Degeneration gave Claire perfect closure as well in my opinion. That's 2 of the main 4 they could have finished with gracefully, leaving only Jill and Leon. But, in my opinion, Capcom screwed up both by A. Keeping Chris alive, and. B. Bringing Claire back for Revelations 2. Not that Revelations 2 isn't a good game. It really is. Better than the first even. But...Claire being in it was a mistake in my opinion. I'd argue that the vast majority of people who bought RE1 back in 96 aren't still playing RE today. Not 23 years later. Just like many people who saw Star Wars in 76 probably didn't go see The Force Awakens. Like any franchise, it keeps bringing in new fans with new releases, and holding on to older fans. But...As time goes on, more and more older fans fall off. So I'm a ok with Capcom giving us new characters and retiring old ones. But they refuse to let them die. Literally or figuratively. Whatever...At least now we still have a chance at seeing Jill and Leon together in a game. That's the only thing I have yet to see from the series that I truly want.

Sure you can argue that Excella looks older, but Capcom's intent was to depict yet another young female in their game instead of allowing her to be an older, successful, business woman

We really can't say what Capcom's intent was here, because we don't know. But we can say, her character design looks like someone in their mid thirties to early 40's, but with elegance, wealth, and power. We can also say the game itself NEVER states her age, and we're meant to infer a lot. So throwing her birth year in on some sorta website or something as an afterthought, to me, means a whole lot less contextually.

 

[bSTAR_182]

I can definitely agree in a way here. I think giving Chris the heroes death in RE6 would have been perfect. Capcom REALLY dropped the ball there. And Degeneration gave Claire perfect closure as well in my opinion. That's 2 of the main 4 they could have finished with gracefully, leaving only Jill and Leon. But, in my opinion, Capcom screwed up both by A. Keeping Chris alive, and. B. Bringing Claire back for Revelations 2. Not that Revelations 2 isn't a good game. It really is. Better than the first even. But...Claire being in it was a mistake in my opinion. I'd argue that the vast majority of people who bought RE1 back in 96 aren't still playing RE today. Not 23 years later. Just like many people who saw Star Wars in 76 probably didn't go see The Force Awakens. Like any franchise, it keeps bringing in new fans with new releases, and holding on to older fans. But...As time goes on, more and more older fans fall off. So I'm a ok with Capcom giving us new characters and retiring old ones. But they refuse to let them die. Literally or figuratively. Whatever...At least now we still have a chance at seeing Jill and Leon together in a game. That's the only thing I have yet to see from the series that I truly want.

I think we see things differently here :wink:

I’m happy they didn’t kill off Chris in a cliche way to replace him with someone who is essentially a younger version.
For me, RE6 fails miserably at telling a solid story because Capcom is so focused on replacing their characters. Instead of getting a proper Chris and Leon team up, we got 5 minutes of them interacting (however, they did make up for that with the new cgi movie). Leon’s story arc accomplished nothing as it tried to throw in Helena, and she is as irrelevant as they come. They should have teamed Leon up with Sherry and had Chris with the B.S.A.A. escorting Jake for their main mission and have Leon, Ada, and Chris all cross paths.

I really don’t remember Degeneration to say if that was a solid way to close her chapter. But I thought how they used Claire as a mentor to Moira starting work at Tera Save was a great way to bring her back. The only issue I had with Rev 2 was that they could have given Claire more of her spunky edge. She felt a bit out of character and seemed to struggle with interacting with Natalia to the point Moira stepped in more. I get it though, as people do change their roles in a group depending on who is around. Claire still felt a little too out of touch though. Happy they corrected this in RE2 and hope we get to see them use the same model/actress for a future installment.

I’m completely open to Leon and Jill meeting.

We really can't say what Capcom's intent was here, because we don't know. But we can say, her character design looks like someone in their mid thirties to early 40's, but with elegance, wealth, and power. We can also say the game itself NEVER states her age, and we're meant to infer a lot. So throwing her birth year in on some sorta website or something as an afterthought, to me, means a whole lot less contextually.

She definitely doesn’t look like anyone in their late 30s or early 40s! Lol

I‘ll give you early 30s though and I think it does have a lot to do with her outfit and the way she carries herself.

 

[KennedyKiller]

I think we see things differently here :wink:

I’m happy they didn’t kill off Chris in a cliche way to replace him with someone who is essentially a younger version.
For me, RE6 fails miserably at telling a solid story because Capcom is so focused on replacing their characters. Instead of getting a proper Chris and Leon team up, we got 5 minutes of them interacting (however, they did make up for that with the new cgi movie). Leon’s story arc accomplished nothing as it tried to throw in Helena, and she is as irrelevant as they come. They should have teamed Leon up with Sherry and had Chris with the B.S.A.A. escorting Jake for their main mission and have Leon, Ada, and Chris all cross paths.

I definitely agree that this would be a much better story. RE6 has the weakest story in any RE game to date, and your pitch is far better. I still think Chris should die, lol, but that's just because the whole game was very obviously building to that, so the fact that it didn't happen feels completely out of left field, and not in the "What a twist!" good way. Hell, Chris doesn't even have to die per se, but could have been given his retirement from the series.

I really don’t remember Degeneration to say if that was a solid way to close her chapter. But I thought how they used Claire as a mentor to Moira starting work at Tera Save was a great way to bring her back. The only issue I had with Rev 2 was that they could have given Claire more of her spunky edge. She felt a bit out of character and seemed to struggle with interacting with Natalia to the point Moira stepped in more. I get it though, as people do change their roles in a group depending on who is around. Claire still felt a little too out of touch though. Happy they corrected this in RE2 and hope we get to see them use the same model/actress for a future installment.

I’m completely open to Leon and Jill meeting.

Degeneration went out of its way to tell you (and pretty much force it down your throat) that Claire is done with the fight. She doesn't want to be on the front-lines anymore. And I know in Rev2 she was forced into it, but I still think they really only brought her back as a selling point, ignoring the fact that they gave her closure some years prior, and hadn't used her since, up to that point.

Anyway, at this point I'm at a place where I either wanna see the series die, or Capcom do something that will actually make it fresh again. I mean, look at Devil May Cry. 4 and 5 both put Nero front and center, and give Dante a much smaller role. An important role, but smaller. Like they're slowly retiring the character, and easing him out for you. I think they're doing Dante right. Why they can't do this with characters like Leon or Chris is baffling to me.

 

[UniqTeas]

If they kill off any character in the series, please let it be meaningful to the story. If a lead character died at the end of RE8 and then RE9 is the follow up where the other characters hunt down the dead characters' killer - that'd be an intense time. But I think we're getting a little out of control in here!

Don't kill Chris unless it means something!

 

[Deleted member 21244]

If they kill off any character in the series, please let it be meaningful to the story. If a lead character died at the end of RE8 and then RE9 is the follow up where the other characters hunt down the dead characters' killer - that'd be an intense time. But I think we're getting a little out of control in here!

Don't kill Chris unless it means something!

I seriously doubt they will ever kill a main character...
Resident evil story was never put on true emotional level, if it happened was really rare