FIFA World Cup 2010 South Africa

[Romero]

You care about this sport, teq?


The final, 74th minute. Before the match I was slightly on Spain's side, now I'm fully on their side. The Dutch plays like hogs and they should have had two players sent off already, but they got away with just warnings.

One offense that the Dutch only got a warning for, would have resulted in a prison sentence anywhere else! I think it was De Jong or van Bommel that put his foot directly on a Spaniard's chest. Both Jong and Bommel have deserved to be sent off.

 

[tequila]

You care about this sport, teq?


The final, 74th minute. Before the match I was slightly on Spain's side, now I'm fully on their side. The Dutch plays like hogs and they should have had two players sent off already, but they got away with just warnings.

One offense that the Dutch only got a warning for, would have resulted in a prison sentence anywhere else! I think it was De Jong or van Bommel that put his foot directly on a Spaniard's chest. Both Jong and Bommel have deserved to be sent off.

Yess I am like in love with soccer! It was Jong who kicked him in the Chest.

Now Robben got a yellow card.

I forgot who it was, but two Dutch tripped one of the Spainards, he got up and smacked one of the other Dutch (on accident). That made me laugh. It was so random.

But yes this game is a rough one!

 

[La Femme Fatale]

I have no interest in soccer (I'm Canadian, it's hockey or nothing lol), but I'm hearing something about a magical octopus. What's going on?

 

[Mr Sunshine]

Congratulations to Spain for being the new world champion although I did support Holland to that game. It was a tight match. Both of them could have won imo. Spain was a bit better though.

I have no interest in soccer (I'm Canadian, it's hockey or nothing lol), but I'm hearing something about a magical octopus. What's going on?

It is a german octapus named Paul which have predicted successfully the outcome of all eight matches of Germany as well as of the final between Spain and Holland.

The procedure is this. They place(before the match obviously) two boxes which contain Paul's food inside his aquarium and they let Paul decide from which box he wants to feed. Each box has the national flag of one of the opposing teams. Surprisingly it has never failed to choose the winner!

However I don't think that it is totally true because

There's always the possibility of draw in football which they didn't take in considaration since they only used two boxes. The final did was a draw in normal length(90 mintutes)

 

[Romero]

Msn this game is gonna make me cry! Villa had the shot!!! This would make a good drinking game with the yellow cards... one show for every yellow card.

5-Netherlands
3-Spain

One show for every yellow card, did you perhaps mean to say one shot (drink)?


22nd minute: Mark van Bommel cuts down Iniesta. An obvious red card situation, yet he gets away with a yellow.

28th minute: Alonso is trying to head the ball, Nigel de Jong runs against him and kicks him in the chest. Yellow card is a scandal, it is clearly a red card situation. I hope this will have an aftermath, Jong should be quaranteened from football and also prosecuted for an act of crime.




Edit:

The main statistics:

The Netherlands - Spain
Goals: ._0000:0 - 1
Chances: 000:3 - 6
Corners: .000:4 - 8
Yellow cards: :9 - 5
Red cards: 00:1 - 0

 

[Popo]

minute 58 or so, iniesta assaults physically a holland player, yet no card

sneijder freekick just before the goal, ball hits a spanish player yet no corner, corner that would change the course of the whole game

and cmon no one is prosecuted for a foul in football, punished for 6 months of playing or a year ok, besides the foul being dangerous and should have been a red card, there was a lot of acting between it

iniesta should win an oscar for acting, cause that's what he did most of the game

besides what some spanish people have been telling me throughout the whole world cup has been annoying me bad, not the players fault though

 

[Romero]

minute 58 or so, iniesta assaults physically a holland player, yet no card

sneijder freekick just before the goal, ball hits a spanish player yet no corner, corner that would change the course of the whole game

and cmon no one is prosecuted for a foul in football, punished for 6 months of playing or a year ok, besides the foul being dangerous and should have been a red card, there was a lot of acting between it

iniesta should win an oscar for acting, cause that's what he did most of the game

besides what some spanish people have been telling me throughout the whole world cup has been annoying me bad, not the players fault though

I have a detailed log from the match, it is noted several freekicks at minute 58 but no serious offenses. Maybe you have seen something the referee and the Norwegian and Swedish TV journalists missed (I watched the game on Swedish television and the log I use is from Norwegian tv).

The referee did several mistakes, the missed corner was one of them. Spain scored directly after this, yet the missed corner is not the reason why Spain scored seconds later. If the Netherlands had gotten that corner, they would have had about 10% chance of scoring. Spain would not have countered at the time they did because they would be defending against the corner, but they would have countered eventually.
As a result of the same logic, the Netherlands would probably not have received 3 red cards if van Bommel had gotten a red card for his attack on Iniesta at minute 22. If that had happened, the other players would have been more careful and de Jong would maybe not have kicked down Alonso at minute 28, and Heitinga would maybe not have risked his second yellow card at minute 109.

Football is a physical game where normal attacks are not regarded as acts of crime, but serious voilence is a crime also in football. Football players have been put on trial before I believe. Kicking someone in the chest has nothing to do with football, it's something you see in kickboxing. De Jong's foot was not even near the ball, he went for the Spanish player.

If Iniesta dived & pretended, then he must have been very good at it, because no TV replays revealed any dives from either side. Diving have always been revealed by the many cameras in this cup. Neither the producers, the tv commentators nor myself did see any such thing. As I see it, this was an ugly match but also a honest one.

I don't know what some Spanish people have said to you, and I don't understand why you say that without explaining more.


Congrats Spain!

 

[tequila]

One show for every yellow card, did you perhaps mean to say one shot (drink)?


22nd minute: Mark van Bommel cuts down Iniesta. An obvious red card situation, yet he gets away with a yellow.

28th minute: Alonso is trying to head the ball, Nigel de Jong runs against him and kicks him in the chest. Yellow card is a scandal, it is clearly a red card situation. I hope this will have an aftermath, Jong should be quaranteened from football and also prosecuted for an act of crime.




Edit:

The main statistics:

The Netherlands - Spain
Goals: ._0000:0 - 1
Chances: 000:3 - 6
Corners: .000:4 - 8
Yellow cards: :9 - 5
Red cards: 00:1 - 0

Yes I mean shot... sorry that was a typo. That's crazy how there were so many offeses in this game. It's really rough.

 

[Popo]

im not sure if it was at minute 58, but i do know that iniesta hurt someone, and van bommel's foul wasnt for a red card, jong's foul was definitely meant to be red card

and if that corner existed, there would be no counter attack = no goal

if you want a decent world cup, get decent referees, this was almost the worst world cup ever, most due to bad referees, england vs germany, a lampard shot that went inside the goal, yet no goal, luis fabiano(brazil) goal against ivory coast, he caught the ball with his arm, and scored, argentina's first goal against mexico, clearly offside, yet it was a goal anyway, spain against portugal, offside goal, but that's a tolerable mistake, only 22 cm anyway, and yes i admit that in the beggining of spain vs portugal there was a fabio coentrão foul over iniesta that should have been a penalty, yet there was no foul, oh and once again benefiting spain

[youtube]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/icJTYQqdlzY&amp;hl=pt_PT&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/icJTYQqdlzY&amp;hl=pt_PT&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

this resulted in a red card for the chile player, what could have affected spain's 1st place in the group, or even the 2nd place

 

[Mr Sunshine]

Oh come on guys! I try not to bother with the referees. I mean this is football! The best team doesn't always win and it is possible for a team to win even if the the referee's decisions are against that team.

Robben had two great chances yesterday and he could have scored two goals but he didn't. Other times it is possible to score with only one chance in the whole game and win the match while the opponent has fifteen chances or more.

As for the kick in the chest I don't think it happened on purpose.

 

[Romero]

im not sure if it was at minute 58, but i do know that iniesta hurt someone, and van bommel's foul wasnt for a red card, jong's foul was definitely meant to be red card

and if that corner existed, there would be no counter attack = no goal

if you want a decent world cup, get decent referees, this was almost the worst world cup ever, most due to bad referees, england vs germany, a lampard shot that went inside the goal, yet no goal, luis fabiano(brazil) goal against ivory coast, he caught the ball with his arm, and scored, argentina's first goal against mexico, clearly offside, yet it was a goal anyway, spain against portugal, offside goal, but that's a tolerable mistake, only 22 cm anyway, and yes i admit that in the beggining of spain vs portugal there was a fabio coentrão foul over iniesta that should have been a penalty, yet there was no foul, oh and once again benefiting spain

[youtube]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/icJTYQqdlzY&amp;hl=pt_PT&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/icJTYQqdlzY&amp;hl=pt_PT&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

this resulted in a red card for the chile player, what could have affected spain's 1st place in the group, or even the 2nd place

Van Bommels foul at the 22nd minute was ugly, but the referee didn't get to see it on replay from different angles like we did. If it should be yellow or red card depends on your standards. This kind of fouls where the attacker goes for the opponent's legs are destructive for the game and dangerous and it is punishable with red card. It's not the worst I've seen but everyone on tv (coaches and commentators) says it's more red than yellow and I agree with them.

And about that Spanish corner the referee missed. I have already (my previous post) explained the logic why it is wrong to say that Spain scored thanks to it. No one knows what would or would not have happened if the Netherlands had gotten that corner. It is not unlikely that Spain would have counter-attacked a little later and scored. This match could have ended 3-0 for the Netherlands but it could also have ended with a Dutch loss 1-5.

I agree that the referee's performance was of mixed quality, it started so well in the first games but later many huge mistakes was made. I remember almost all the examples on your list, especially the English goal.

I think the diving and pretending is destructive for the game and when such cheating are proved on video after the game, the diving players should get punished by a long quarantine. The divers are so easily busted on tv, but alas the referee's doesn't have the luxury of tv replays.
But I in the final I think there was no diving at all. I'll also remind you that Robben is known for diving and he had got criticism for it in this cup. So in this match it was remarked that "Robben actually remained on his feet!!" when he maybe should have earned a penalty kick.

Oh come on guys! I try not to bother with the referees. I mean this is football! The best team doesn't always win and it is possible for a team to win even if the the referee's decisions are against that team.

Robben had two great chances yesterday and he could have scored two goals but he didn't. Other times it is possible to score with only one chance in the whole game and win the match while the opponent has fifteen chances or more.

As for the kick in the chest I don't think it happened on purpose.

You are right for the most part, but you have misread the situation where de Jong put his foot on Alonso's chest. Alonso was going to take the ball on his head and de Jong saw this. Jong was too coward to take the duel by using his head and instead used his foot. Do you not read body language or did you not see the replays? I must admit that I wouldn't have noticed it either, had it not been for the expert commentators on tv analyzing the situation on replay after the match.



What the Dutch planned for the final can not be proved unless they confirm any plan, but if the Dutch was tactically smart then they would have planned to play as ugly as possible without getting players sent off. This would be the most effective way of disrupting Spain's game and thus defeating them. And this was exactly what happened but if it was planned only the Dutch team knows. I personally believe it was panned and I won't blame them for it. When you are in a final you'll do whatever it takes to become world champion.

 

[Popo]

the fact is that there are errors committed by the referees, but it's also a fact that there are "errors", it's not new to football, bribing referees, france is one of who does that more often, and an example of an error, that offside against portugal, it was very difficult to spot it, but the video of that torres dive i put earlier on the topic, that's an "error" because these referees are suposed professionals that earn tons of money, he has the obligation of not doing such things as giving that red card,


and i also think that holland hurting spain's players was planned, although its bad and ugly, it is a way to gain an advantage, to hurt players that are important for the other team, such as xavi, iniesta and david villa.

last thing im gonna say about the world cup and referees

technology has been evolving these past years, USE IT

 

[Mr Sunshine]

^Yeah, the spanish players had a better technique and the dutch players couldn't easily steal the ball from them. When that happpens you'll have to be more agressive to stop your opponent.

Still Romero, I think that De Jong didn't hit Alonso on purpose. It was the 29th minute. There were 61 more minutes to go. He obviously didn't think that Holland would have made it with 10 players for such a long time as well as that he wouldn't get away with that(It was a surprise that he didn't got a red card after all). I mean Holland didn't gain anything with such an act. On the contrary they were supposed to lose something. Why do it?

De Jong's foot went to the place where the ball would have gone if it there hadn't been Alonso. Yes, footballers use their foot instead of their head sometimes because they're afraid to hurt themselves, not because they want to hurt the other player.

Zidane's headbutt on the other hand was on purpose. Zidane was on a temper tantrum. There had been a lot of dirty talk between these two players before the headbutt. Who knows what Materazzi told to him. I don't think that there has been such a conversation on the final yesterday and De Jong didn't seem angry at all. Not to mention that the kick happened during gameplay while the headbutt didn't.

 

[Mr Sunshine]

Btw, did you see Casillas kissing his girlfriend ,who happens to be a reporter, during the interview after the match?

You are the man Casillas!

[youtube]A25UiaD1H-I[/youtube]

 

[Popo]

nope, i changed the channel right after the game, no pleasure in seeing others celebrate xD

 

[Romero]

Still Romero, I think that De Jong didn't hit Alonso on purpose. It was the 29th minute. There were 61 more minutes to go. He obviously didn't think that Holland would have made it with 10 players for such a long time as well as that he wouldn't get away with that(It was a surprise that he didn't got a red card after all). I mean Holland didn't gain anything with such an act. On the contrary they were supposed to lose something. Why do it?

De Jong's foot went to the place where the ball would have gone if it there hadn't been Alonso. Yes, footballers use their foot instead of their head sometimes because they're afraid to hurt themselves, not because they want to hurt the other player.

I don't think de Jong planned to hurt Alonso, but that is not the same as the kick was not on purpose. Jong de see Alonso coming with his head first, Jong did not dare to duel head vs head. So he stopped Alonso with his foot, and of course he knew that it would hurt Alonso. The studio experts believes that Jong did not mean to be agressive, he was just coward. I fully agree on this analysis, I think it is what makes sense.

Planned? Very unlikely.
Aggressive? No, cowardly.
On purpose? Of course. He knew what he was doing.

 

[Mr Sunshine]

But everything that is done on purpose has already been thought and therefore is planned. Anyway that's not the case. In fact we need to define what the purpose is. If a footballer wants to stop someone and not the ball, he won't kick him in the chest but most likely pull his shirt to bring him down.

 

[Romero]

With "on purpose", I mean that it is no accident, it's deliberate. It is not the same as planned!

You have heard about first and second degree murder?

 

[Mr Sunshine]

No, I have never heard of it. Anyway, the rise of the foot was on purpose. The kick wasn't imo. I don't have anything more to add.

 

[Romero]

I'm not sure what it's called in the English language, but I guess 1st degree murder is worse than 2nd degree. (It could also be the other way around.)

1st degree is where the murder was planned, and the punishment is much stiffer than for 2nd degree.

2nd degree murder is on purpose (no accident), but it was not planned. A typical example of this is when two strangers starts to fight over something and one pulls a weapon and kills the other.

This is an analogy to de Jong's kick. It was deliberate but not planned.
I am convinced because I have seen numerous replays and football experts have had their say. This is my fundament.

It's okay if you disagree and since you seem to be convinced I won't and can't force you to change your mind. I did my best to explain and I guess I'm done.