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Animal Rights Activists - paragons or menaces to society?

Angel

Angel

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Ok, so I'm wondering what you guys think of animal rights activists. By this I mean the sort who (often aggressively) lobby for no animal testing for medications, no scientific research etc - not make-up or perfume, but stuff that directly affects the quality of human life.

Basically, a number of major airlines and ferry companies have, due to heavy pressure from activists on various social media sites and the concurrent hijacking of digital means of communications, stopped importing animals (rats, mice and rabbits only) which are specifically modified to display the human-like effects of certain serious and incurable diseases. To protect their own staff from possible violence or other retaliation, these companies have complied with the demands of the activists and are no longer bringing these animals into the UK. Activists are calling it a victory but the scientific community are concerned about the potential harm this can cause if they cannot continue their research.

I have my own views which I may or may not post later but for now, what are your thoughts? Are you an activist yourself? If so, for what reasons? If you're not an activist, why? Do you think they are right or wrong in preventing scientists from conducting medical research into things like cancer, AIDS, motor neuron disease, diabetes, Alzheimers etc? Do you believe that animals deserve the same rights as humans or perhaps even more rights?

Just want to reiterate - I'm not talking about the fur trade, bizarre "health" foods involving endangered species, vanity products or the like. I mean specifically medical research.
 
I used to hunt, so i'm very close to nature and know exactly how the cycle of life works.

I've always thought activists suffered the same childhoods that a lot of Vegans i know had... ( too much walt disney )
so when confronted with the real face of the animal kingdom its a shock to the system and they refuse to accept that,
nobody, not even the Lion, is safe in the game of life and death.

As a Christian it makes me feel very un-easy watching fellow creatures suffer at the hands of science..At the end of the day, it is for the betterment of mankind... so that mankind can live longer. <--- this is where i start to frown.

Because man living longer with his current attitude towards others, and the planet... is just going to screw things up even more.

Regardless if anyone wants t admit it, or even put a brave face on it... Man is driven by the fear of death...because death apparently, removes all meaning, point or purpose to his life...

we removed ourselves from reality a long time ago. Our treatment of the planet and nature is proof of this fact.

These animal activists do a lot of damage, and often act without thinking... they are impulsive...but they are not entirely without a point.

We stand at what. 7 billion in population... we've spiraled out of control since the 1800's... so there is a slight irony in our desire to pro-long our lives... is that it'll excellerate our population growth and we'll eat this planet like a cancer then turn in on ourselves.

Mankind has a splintered psyche, he's a frail species and understands very little at the end of the day.

He can tell you all about his toys and discoveries... but when it comes to how things are, and why... he either acts macho, disinterested or falls silent...

My only opinion to this matter is that, if as a species, we're to continue to do to the animal kingdom, which we didn't like having done to us by the Nazi's....then we need to address the bigger picture, and respect everything on this planet and not just cherry pick at our convenience, because as much as it'll hurt our pride to hear this, it needs to be said....the world does not start and stop at our convenience.....

ladies and gentlemen, make no mistake about it....if we are hell bent on walking this path...we're as good as **cked.
 
I'm not going to delve too deeply into this because we've had similar discussions before and they don't often bode well for me, aha.

Here's how I think of animal rights and why I've been particularly sensitive to them; it was only luck of the draw that I was born in Canada, and as a human girl and not as one of the animals who would eventually be subject to this. I think a lot of people have become disengaged with the fact that animals are sentient beings; they feel pain, and fear and I wish more people who handle animals in any capacity could be sensitive to that. Unfortunately not many are.

Factory and fur farming, puppy mills and the like, cosmetic testing, that's out of the question for me. I don't like it and I don't think it's 'moral', at least not under my definition of 'morality'. I've always been on the fence about experimentation in regards to medical purposes. I understand its value, certainly.

I think where and if anesthetic can be used, it should and these are costs that should not be cut. What I'd like to avoid are things like what happened in the Brown Dog Affair - if using an anesthetic will not interfere with the purposes of your research, then you better well do it. When it comes to sentient beings, we shouldn't cut corners.

I'm not saying that animals deserve more rights than humans, but if we are to use for purposes that could very well inflict a great amount of pain on them, they do deserve certain protections.
 
At what point do you draw the line (if at all) within the realm of animal testing when it concerns your own well-being, or that of the people you know? If you are someone who is completely against the use of animals in testing, how far do you take it?

I mean, should a "true" activist only accept medication that has NOT been tested on animals? Should they refuse a procedure because an animal had to undergo it first before it was considered acceptable for human use? How about if they were to develop a life-threatening illness or something debilitating - should they refuse medical care that was in any way, shape or form involving the use of animals in creating it safely for humans? How would one even find out if one's medicinal care was tested on animals in the first place? Should they even go as far as to refuse EVERY form of treatment that HISTORICALLY has used animals in its production and testing?

Do any of you believe activists have the right to prevent ALL ill people from getting a cure for their condition because of how they feel about the issue? And if they do take medications that have been tested on animals, does that make them a hypocrite, do you think?

If you are against animal testing for medicinal purposes - even if it's only up to a certain point - would you still stand by your principles, knowing that it could condemn many, if the only cure for cancer or dementia were to come from animal testing?
 
I think it's upto the activist to put forward a solid case as to why these things should stop. But i've seen far too many petrol bomb cars, bet people up and cause damage to property as a meas to make their point...As i said these people by in large, seem to be reactionary, which is to say they don't take time to think things out, they see the suffering of an animal and they lash out.. and so they should...

But where they want change, is where they fall down. I've yet to see a spokesperson or leader, if you like for these movements who has a good enough ( alternative )

It's a very explosive subject because it touches on so many levels it's unreal.

There are child murderers and rapists who get better treatment in jail for their entire lives, than the animals who '' help us '' do.

This is far from a black & white case, and i think it demands that some hard hitting questions be asked and answered honestly, after profound thought and reflextion.

There is a strange line between us and the animal kingdom but i think the key word is Balance.
 
Look, I love nature as much as the next guy...But humans will use ANYTHING in their environment to make their life better/easier...and THAT is nature...That is biology...So animal rights activists are actually going against basic human instinct, making THEM the ones going against the same nature they try to "Preserve"..

Now, I don't hunt or anything...I occasionally go fishing...And if you count Frog gigging as hunting then...Anyway, I understand the necessity of hunting for example if it's hunting for FOOD...If you're gonna eat what you kill have at it...But I'm AGAINST hunting for sport...To me, taking the life of another animal to go brag about it to your buddies is wrong, and explains why evolution is just a theory (That last part is a joke fyi)...But humans will do what they're gonna do as the dominant species and that's just how it's ALWAYS worked...
 
Great post KK, I completely agree with you.

I don't think animals should be used at will, but I think it's better to kill an animal with an experimental drug than a human. For example, drugs development has to be tested in humans, but it is tested in animals until it is considered "safe" to test in humans.
I agree with Femme, anesthetics should be used whenever possible, however, in most cases they do interfere with the tests, especially in drug or infection tests.
I am in favor of animal testing for other types of research too, because to have the techniques to create medicine and treatments, we need to develop those techniques first, and that might require testing on animals.
There are legislations about animal testing, and authorities control closely if the legislation is met, contrarily to what some people might think.
My opinon might be somewhat influenced by my biosciences background, but I think activists should foccus more on activities like recreative hunting, bullfights (and other forms of animal violence), animals in circuses, animal shows in Zoos, etc.
 
bruno said:
animal shows in Zoos, etc.
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This part caught my attention...I agree with you completely, and wanna take it a step further...They should focus on Gorillas...Did you know most zoos only have one gorilla. That's actually animal cruelty...Gorillas are NOT solitary animals...They have big groups of family and friends that they interact with on a daily basis...They're VERY much like humans in the sociological aspect of it...They have memory and forms of communication...When a zoo only has one gorilla it is taking EVERYTHING from what makes them such a unique animal in the animal kingdom...And then they're putting them on display for OUR amusement...We go there with OUR families and friends and we get to have OUR sociological interactions, but they can't have theirs? It's straight up wrong...
 
Ahhh, the circus.... one of my ( pet ) hates.

I hate seeing Tigers,Lions,Leopards,Elephants and the like performing routines for the entertainment of people.

When in india, i seen too many scrawny little trolls with chained up bears. Rings through their nose and if they didn't dance they were beaten with a club. Naturally, the Bear was on a poor diet so it didnt resemble a BEAR. at all.

Bear baiting is another act barbarity to me. I fail to see the Use//meaning or even sportsmanship in the act. I know its a medieval sport.. but surely, '' sport '' means a fair playing ground ? or a '' sporting chance '' The removal of the bears teeth and claws to me, removes his sporting chance.

I've seen too many videos of Johnny hardmen thinking they are the dogs bollox as they chain a bear to the wall, and have his little mutts harass and bite at the bear, whilst Johnny and his inbred mates fire guns and hit it with clubs and iron pipes.

Despite the cries of '' its an ancient sport '' i can't help but feel, that the fact the Bears sporting chance has been removed, turns it from a sport into a replay of the time these little jimmy's were back in school pulling the legs from spiders.

We all know, that if you pulled that crap with a Grizzly or any other bear for that matter, your puppies will be gone in a matter of seconds, and Johnny steel and his mates will be climbing the walls to get away from the thoroughly ****ed off Bear, who by this time is more ( Ware ) than he is ( Grizzly ) This just leaves me to conclude it's just man and his desire to beat his insecurities down on the animal kingdom... the bigger the victim, the harder his erection is... its that simple.

Someone at my work, a fully grown man, in his 40's hates cats... whenever he see's one out back, he chases them and tries to kick them full force. Everyone let him get away with it, as they just think hes a crazy old fool... but i don't.. i asked him if he liked cats.. and he said no... I asked if he'd take the same attitude with a Lion... which is a cat... and he never answered...

so i continued... it's really just a size issue to you isn't it ? it's really about you kicking something because you think you can get away with it.... ( still no answer )

Residents of survival-horror-ville.

We all know that my esteemed workmate wouldnt dare take said attitude with a Lion...

The Lions swagger as it powerwalks would be enough to have him running for cover...

If he caught the Tigers eye in amidst the brush....he'd **** himself.

The Leopard would have spotted him and ran through 101 different take down scenario's long before he saw it

and he'd freeze to the spot if he walked right into the flight path of a Cheetah.

Then there is Badger baiting... where inbred's out in the sticks gather their little terriers and have them drag badgers from their dens and beat them to death.

What you rarely hear about, is the utter carnage a Badger does to the terriers, so it is as cruel to the victim as it is to the Dogs. There is no reason other than blood thirst, for the persecution towards badgers. Our attitude to Animals as a whole, stinks. We're under the impression that they're here for our entertainment, and this just isn't the case.


It's like the old saying,

If the Grass could scream, would you still cut it ?

I think if we can't even get around to stopping the suffering for animals as a means for entertainment, then i don't see how we can get to the topic of medical care for mankind at the hands of animals.

ps, Just as a side note.

I admit to cracking a smile everytime i see a Bull gore a matador, when an Elephant breaks free form a circus and goes on a king kong sized rampage in the street turning over car after car...When a Rhino Crashes into a tour bus and gives them a vacation they won't forget for a long time. Or when Johnny steel and Fido are without their gun totting mates, and walk straight into a 15 strong, hard as nails merciless wolf pack.

Not because i like to see fellow humans suffer, but because it always reminds me of the time i was hunting a Stag, and the son of a gun out witted me and made a swift escape after 8 hours of tracking.

The moral is, that in the cycle of life, which is ruled by the law of the jungle, every animal in the Kingdom is allowed his victory....

Although i swear for as long as i live... that everytime i see a Bull give the matador the eye before a successful gore, i believe the Bull receives a whisper in its ear and the balance is restored. Just like how my Stag knew with an uncanny 6th sense to drop a shoulder to the right but then take off to the left, leaving my arrow to fly in the opposite direction.
 
I have a few things to say:

First i am not a strict activist like 'fur is murder', to be honest i think it is kind of pointless. I feel strongly for other animals though, if i see a bird in a cage, or a cat/dog that lives in an apartment its whole life, I feel hurt that an animal has been conditioned to live in a cage or prison for a human being's mental self interest. I have never been to a circus, but the man who gets killed by the lion or bear, my feelings go towards the lions and bears. The first murder is when you took them from there natural environment for your small pathetic pleasures. I think we should observe animals in there natural environment by building tubes, boardwalks and the like, not put them in zoo's or aquariums. But for that to happen, will require a lot of other things to change.

As for Scientists.. If animals are the best way to understand how certain things work, then yes. Unless you can propose a better solution then complaining will get you nowhere. That is a fact. Are you willing to take tests? Can you find a way which is going to be less harmful or much more stimulating for the animal to undergo tests? How would you go about finding a cure for diseases like AIDS and Viruses etc without using animals? Don't throw morality at a scientist, give him something to work with and maybe you will get somewhere.
 
Animal Rights Activists are alright with humans, also animals, with testing things on themselves? More like Non-human rights activist.
 
Angel said:
To protect their own staff from possible violence or other retaliation, these companies have complied with the demands of the activists and are no longer bringing these animals into the UK.
Click to expand...
That is too bad. I don't like to call them activists, I like to call them criminals. It is wrong to let criminals have their way, they should be in prison.

When I hear "animal rights activists", I think "mafia" and I despise them. I want to treat PETA, Sea Shepherd and other similar organizations like Hizbollah, al-Shabaab and Taliban. They should be on the No-Fly list and banks and financial institutions should not be allowed to deal with them. The activists might do some good, but some of what they do is terror. The same can be said about Hizbollah, etc.

If some of you dear forumers are members of any of these animal rights activist groups, I don't have a problem with you. But if you personally come to my country and sink more fishing boats or perform other types of sabotage, we will have a problem. See, this is why I have so much hatred for mafia groups like PETA.

-_- Peace.
 
Romero said:
That is too bad. I don't like to call them activists, I like to call them criminals. It is wrong to let criminals have their way, they should be in prison.

When I hear "animal rights activists", I think "mafia" and I despise them. I want to treat PETA, Sea Shepherd and other similar organizations like Hizbollah, al-Shabaab and Taliban. They should be on the No-Fly list and banks and financial institutions should not be allowed to deal with them. The activists might do some good, but some of what they do is terror. The same can be said about Hizbollah, etc.

If some of you dear forumers are members of any of these animal rights activist groups, I don't have a problem with you. But if you personally come to my country and sink more fishing boats or perform other types of sabotage, we will have a problem. See, this is why I have so much hatred for mafia groups like PETA.

-_- Peace.
Click to expand...
There is a difference between Mafia and other groups like that, and PETA...PETA is more like a "terrorist organization" in one form or another...Mafia is a business...And unethical and ruthless business, but a business nonetheless...I actually personally know a man in the American Mafia...As a person he's a great guy...He'll give you the clothes off his back if you need them...But the business he's in is a shady one to say the least...
 
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