Resident Evil 4 Why RE4 Changed The Series (A Historical Perspective and Argument)

[Deleted member 21244]

Again, you seem to be missing the point. I never stated that my opinions were objectively correct. I stated that my reasoning for my statements were objective, as you tried to write off said opinion as backed by subjective reasoning. I've given you my reasons and they were based on the fact that it failed to keep players and critics happy, which in turn led to a soft reboot that attempted to go back to the series' roots, which was clearly not Resident Evil 4.



Yet, it clearly states that survival horror is a subgenre... Action adventure is a broad genre that covers many types of video games including survival horror games. And BTW, when was that ever your point?

Survival horror games can have RPG elements in them like upgrading weapons, yet still not be considered an RPG. They can have all sorts of differences like the games you just stated, and still be survival horror games because they're still just survival horror games. Resident Evil 4 on the other hand is a third-person shooter survival horror game, which is very much different from just a survival horror game and is essentially a whole new subgenre of game, like Metroidvanias, which are a mix of Platforming and Adventure. When you mix genres, you get a whole new subgenre, it isn't just more of the same. That completely discredits the style and innovation of the work. So whether you want to admit it or not, no, Resident Evil 4 is not the same kind of game as Resident Evil 1-CVX/REmake/0. It's a complete reinvention that is no longer a survival horror game, as it was printed on the box of the game which you thought you could just ignore.



Sure, on your résumé. The subjective has no role in determining what Resident Evil is. That was answered for us in 1996 and cemented with its sequels before they shifted direction. Just because someone may like the games or play them for entirely different reasons doesn't mean they've somehow changed the fact of the matter. Your logic is honestly ridiculous at this point. To say Umbrella Chronicles is a "true blue" Resident Evil game is like saying Mario Kart is just another Super Mario game, which completely disregards their differences.

You are a kid probably to answer whit that video... You are pathetic and ridicolous...

 

[Turo602]

You are a kid probably to answer whit that video... You are pathetic and ridicolous...

Says the guy who hasn't been able to a grasp a single thing that's been discussed here, but piggybacks off of KennedyKiller's posts despite not being able to construct a single coherent argument, yet thinks his praise is worth a damn. Quote all of this while you're at it.

 

[Deleted member 21244]

Says the guy who hasn't been able to a grasp a single thing that's been discussed here, but piggybacks off of KennedyKiller's posts despite not being able to construct a single coherent argument, yet thinks his praise is worth a damn. Quote all of this while you're at it.

Talked the one that for 10 post only writed, resident evil 4 is not a Resident Evil game... While not giving any valide argument
I put more coherent argument than you... Stop whit you childish attitude, grow up a bit...

And realize That in life exist more opinion about things you are talking to, not only yours, and get of the throne, since your opinion are nothing absolute...
Just ridicolous

 

[Turo602]

Talked the one that for 10 post only writed, resident evil 4 is not a Resident Evil game... While not giving any valide argument
I put more coherent argument than you... Stop whit you childish attitude, grow up a bit...

And realize That in life exist more opinion about things you are talking to, not only yours, and get of the throne, since your opinion are nothing absolute...
Just ridicolous

Let KennedyKiller do your talking.

 

[Deleted member 21244]

Let KennedyKiller do your talking.

A Poor little kid you are
A write entire and post about my motivation not my fault if you are unable to read them

 

[Turo602]

A Poor little kid you are
A write entire post and post about my motivation not my fault if you are unable to read them

I've read your posts, I disagreed with them, I've countered argued, and I've elaborated on my reasons. But instead, you want to be butthurt and attack me because you choose to be ignorant and stubborn. So if you're gonna keep acting like a crybaby, then I have nothing else to say to you. Have a great day.

 

[Deleted member 21244]

I've read your posts, I disagreed with them, I've countered argued, and I've elaborated on my reasons. But instead, you want to be butthurt and attack me because you choose to be ignorant and stubborn. So if you're gonna keep acting like a crybaby, then I have nothing else to say to you. Have a great day.

I didn't attack, I simply countered argued and you write that I didnt know what I'm talking about and that I should stop write... probably when someone doesn't share you opinion and say something about it you simply shut them up instead of giving valid motivation on why you think they are wrong... Why should I stop write or express myself? Because what I write wasn t in line whit your opinion? You are telling me that I am ignorant and stubborn because I didn't embrace you opinion? Pathetic

You act like a cry baby not me...

I quoted leon post because I think he was right in what he say... What's the problem In That? That you insulted me on this matter?

 

[KennedyKiller]

Holy sh*t what did I wake up to find XD. I thought I was gonna have fun. Relax at work. Argue about Resident Evil. With great trepidation I opened my REN tab, and *Boom*. I am subjected to this. And quite honestly, I'm glad. That back and forth was grand.

 

[Turo602]

Holy sh*t what did I wake up to find XD. I thought I was gonna have fun. Relax at work. Argue about Resident Evil. With great trepidation I opened my REN tab, and *Boom*. I am subjected to this. And quite honestly, I'm glad. That back and forth was grand.

Quoted all you say, Leon.

 

[Deleted member 21244]

Well, unfortunately not all re fan are mature persone, some are childish baby, who cry unless they make their opinion absolute...
But who cares, let them belive

 

[UniqTeas]

So, I skipped the ENTIRE second page of this argument because I feel like it was probably a LOT of back and forth about the same thing.

I can agree with some of the arguments made against my case. The Gamecube/Nintendo deal did lower the sales a lot. But a lot of those figures take in to consideration the releases and re-releases as well.

But I don't agree that critics were all new to the series when RE4 came out. A lot of reviewers give the review of a series to someone who understands the series. It wouldn't make sense for a reviewer who hadn't played at least a portion of the series to comment on a game in that series. A lot of the critics at the time were long time RE fans HENCE their boredom with the way the series was going.

I think RE4 is a great game and was a very valuable addition to the series overall. Sure, it lead to the dark climax of the series in RE6 - but people were telling Capcom that RE5 was even a touch too much action and they wanted to go back to the horror roots. Capcom just thought they knew better and wanted to capitalize on the huge series at the time (COD, Gears, L4D, etc.) But the series is in better shape now and I have a lot of faith for RE8.

 

[Jen]

But I don't agree that critics were all new to the series when RE4 came out. A lot of reviewers give the review of a series to someone who understands the series. It wouldn't make sense for a reviewer who hadn't played at least a portion of the series to comment on a game in that series. A lot of the critics at the time were long time RE fans HENCE their boredom with the way the series was going.

I think RE4 is a great game and was a very valuable addition to the series overall. Sure, it lead to the dark climax of the series in RE6 - but people were telling Capcom that RE5 was even a touch too much action and they wanted to go back to the horror roots. Capcom just thought they knew better and wanted to capitalize on the huge series at the time (COD, Gears, L4D, etc.) But the series is in better shape now and I have a lot of faith for RE8.

The thing is, while a lot of reviewers have a general awareness of what kind of game Resident Evil should be, they aren't fans of the series, especially when it comes to the more well-known general game reviewers. They're just there to give their thoughts on a game generally and don't judge as to whether or not a game is a good Resident Evil game. In @KennedyKiller 's example about the box art, Game Informer says 'Destined to be the greatest survival horror game of all time!'. But Capcom only highlighted the words 'greatest', 'game' and 'all time' in larger font, plus right next to it, Capcom describe the game as 'Fast-paced, edge-of-your-seat action'. The box art from my region that I posted further back in this thread also says 'Forget survival horror'. To me, this means that Game Informer actually weren't that informed about this game.

Even the more horror-focused reviewers often aren't actual fans. That just makes the review a tickbox exercise based on the most basic elements of the series. They think that if there's some sort of bio threat, a loose horror feel, an easter egg or two or a line about Raccoon City in there, and it's a halfway decent game generally, it's '8.5/10 Resident Evil is back!'.

Fans of the series often have much higher expectations than that - which they should.

Personally, I loved RE4 as a game, because it was a reintroduction into a series I was terrified of as a child. It was a fun game generally, and I did find a few moments and events that scared me in there (whether that was because I was about twelve at the time, I'm not sure). However, I can definitely see why people see this game as the game that started the decline into more action-focused gameplay, and I do agree that it took things a little too far with the action. This was then taken a step further still in RE5.

I've said it before in forum discussions that I feel like RE6 was sort of like a market research deal for Capcom. They put several campaigns with different styles in there, and a few weeks after release, they asked fans whose campaign was their favourite in a Facebook poll. The resounding favourite was Leon's campaign due to the slightly more horror-focused feel. When Revelations 2 released after RE6, this was given generally favourable praise and seen as a step in the right direction for the series.

Enter RE7, where they ignore the feedback from Revelations 2 and change mostly everything - first person camera, very few links to previous games and a main character who was bland because they wanted to utilise VR so that it's like 'the player is experiencing the horror for themselves'. That was never what Resident Evil was about.

Capcom prove time and time again that they don't have any direction with this series by constantly changing the formula. It's why the fanbase is as divided as it is. I don't really know many other series where people argue over whether or not the game is a good example of a game in that series, though that may be just me not taking part in discussions about many other series. The fact that the fanbase is so divided is proof that the game has deviated a hell of a lot from what it used to be, and now Capcom has the issue of 'which fans do we listen to?' because so many people want so many different things from Resident Evil.

They always fix one thing only to break several others and we end up in the same vicious cycle where there's something not right about the series. It needs someone with a passion for the series to take the helm and make it coherent and give it direction, instead of standalone games where they can go with the current gaming trend to make as much money as possible.

 

[Deleted member 21244]

Metal gear solid, devil may cry, god of war, all game devise fanbase not only resident evil...

It's Capcom fault, they digged they own grave, they should have kept resident evil 5 as it was in the original concept instead of replacing it mind development, firing mikami out and replace the game whit a more action Co op only because gears of War came out and everyone were exited about that... Capcom doesn't have the balls to make original concept for resident evil game in my opinion, whit resident evil 5 they see how well gears of War was received and decided to change the game, whit reizdnet evil 6 they decided to listen to all the fan and decided to make a game that is neither action, nor horror nor call of duty, it's just an abomination... It look like they did not know what to do whit the series whitout its creator

They should stop watch other franchise and listen to fan, but make their own game just like they did whit resident evil 7 that in my opinion was finally a true re game, a survival horror were you play as a man alone into an house full of mistery and monster and enigma, whit corporation that are behind the incident and scary story... That s what resident evil really was

 

[Jen]

Metal gear solid, devil may cry, god of war, all game devise fanbase not only resident evil...

It's Capcom fault, they digged they own grave, they should have kept resident evil 5 as it was in the original concept instead of replacing it mind development, firing mikami out and replace the game whit a more action Co op only because gears of War came out and everyone were exited about that... Capcom doesn't have the balls to make original concept for resident evil game in my opinion, whit resident evil 5 they see how well gears of War was received and decided to change the game, whit reizdnet evil 6 they decided to listen to all the fan and decided to make a game that is neither action, nor horror nor call of duty, it's just an abomination... It look like they did not know what to do whit the series whitout its creator

They should stop watch other franchise and listen to fan, but make their own game just like they did whit resident evil 7 that in my opinion was finally a true re game, a survival horror were you play as a man alone into an house full of mistery and monster and enigma, whit corporation that are behind the incident and scary story... That s what resident evil really was

I did say that I didn't take part in discussions about many other franchises. Are there as many different factions of fans as there are with Resident Evil? With Resident Evil, you have the people who love 1-3 and hate anything thereafter, people who love 4-6 as those were the games that introduced them into the series, people who don't really have much preference with any genre, people who love the characters, people who hate the characters, people who like zombies, people who like BOWs... I doubt any other series is as separated as this one, but I'm no expert.

Also, you say that RE5 was the one that changed the series, when it was RE4. RE5 just built on what RE4 created. I don't know if you've seen footage of what RE4 was going to be (if not, search for RE 3.5). It was going to be a largely different game until Shinji Mikami was told to go a different direction to make sales. It was going to be a game that was much more alike to the original games than the RE4 we got.

I don't think you can say Resident Evil 7 is the definitive true RE game. When you get to the seventh instalment in a series, not to mention a series that has multiple spin offs, and it's as disconnected to anything that came in the last two decades before it in that series, I don't think you can make that claim. It's totally different to anything that happened in the series previously, so I don't really think it can be counted as a true Resident Evil game.

Had they tweaked Resident Evil 7 slightly, I could say differently. Imagine if Eveline was Natalia, Claire was looking after her instead of Mia, and you play as Chris looking for them, and had it been third-person perspective, I feel like that would be more of a Resident Evil game. It wouldn't have been perfect, but it would have been better, especially if they'd given it a more fleshed-out story, and if they'd shown more characterisation than the bland, boring, forgettable cast that 7 showcased.

 

[Turo602]

It's Capcom fault, they digged they own grave, they should have kept resident evil 5 as it was in the original concept instead of replacing it mind development, firing mikami out and replace the game whit a more action Co op only because gears of War came out and everyone were exited about that... Capcom doesn't have the balls to make original concept for resident evil game in my opinion, whit resident evil 5 they see how well gears of War was received and decided to change the game, whit reizdnet evil 6 they decided to listen to all the fan and decided to make a game that is neither action, nor horror nor call of duty, it's just an abomination... It look like they did not know what to do whit the series whitout its creator

Resident Evil 5 and 6 are true Resident Evil games. How can you say that? That's just your opinion, not an absolute truth. How dare you say Resident Evil 6 is an abomination. What's your motivation? It has zombies and mystery and a corporation, that's what Resident Evil always was.

 

[Deleted member 21244]

I did say that I didn't take part in discussions about many other franchises. Are there as many different factions of fans as there are with Resident Evil? With Resident Evil, you have the people who love 1-3 and hate anything thereafter, people who love 4-6 as those were the games that introduced them into the series, people who don't really have much preference with any genre, people who love the characters, people who hate the characters, people who like zombies, people who like BOWs... I doubt any other series is as separated as this one, but I'm no expert.

Also, you say that RE5 was the one that changed the series, when it was RE4. RE5 just built on what RE4 created. I don't know if you've seen footage of what RE4 was going to be (if not, search for RE 3.5). It was going to be a largely different game until Shinji Mikami was told to go a different direction to make sales. It was going to be a game that was much more alike to the original games than the RE4 we got... there was a version that taked loen into Spencer castle and the hcf and wesker were the primary enemy, I had to admit that this version was way better in term of story compared to resident evil 4

I don't think you can say Resident Evil 7 is the definitive true RE game. When you get to the seventh instalment in a series, not to mention a series that has multiple spin offs, and it's as disconnected to anything that came in the last two decades before it in that series, I don't think you can make that claim. It's totally different to anything that happened in the series previously, so I don't really think it can be counted as a true Resident Evil game.

Had they tweaked Resident Evil 7 slightly, I could say differently. Imagine if Eveline was Natalia, Claire was looking after her instead of Mia, and you play as Chris looking for them, and had it been third-person perspective, I feel like that would be more of a Resident Evil game. It wouldn't have been perfect, but it would have been better, especially if they'd given it a more fleshed-out story, and if they'd shown more characterisation than the bland, boring, forgettable cast that 7 showcased.

I actually like the cast from Re 7, yeah they are not like Chris and Jill or Leon and Claire, but they are good in my opinion...

Yeah there are other game that divided the Fandom, there are people who like mgs 1 and 3 and disliked 2 and 4 or peace walker or mgs v... There are people who like the first dmc 1 but disliked the other, or people who like me like all of the franchises in this game... Resident evil isn't the only one, you will be surprised on how many series are out there that devised Fandom...

Only because we didn't play whit our beloved character in resident evil 7 doesn't mean it isn't a resident evil game since it's gameplay is 100% resident evil... And the story connection are there, the umbrella, the organization, the hcf, wesker Chris, bsaa, the difference is that the player see this trought a normal man eyes, a new character...

Yeah I already watched the resident evil 3.5 castel version trailer ecc and it wasn't really a resident evil game for me since we have dolls that take life and Ghost... They didn't change this because of money but because it was to much away from what the series is, also the first concept of resident evil 4 was devil may cry but they didn't change it because they wanted to make money but, just like the castel version, it was to far away from a resident evil game, demon were there not virus or parasite... At least this Is the reason I Readed on why they change resident evil 4 many times... There was a version in Wich leon infiltrated into Spencer European castle and the main villain were wesker and hcf, I had to admit that this version was way better in term of story and I would have preferred this version to the resident evil 4 we had

Resident evil 5 was the wrong step in my opinion because before mikami was fired they were going to make a game that in my opinion resembled An excellent resident evil game and a good end for Chris and wesker story, but they ****ed up when they fired mikami and decided to change it in Co op and action... Originally resident evil 5 was a game like the evil whitin, you arrived in the kijuju village and you could have explored it freely and you had to hide into building from t virus zombie, it was also solo not Co op, and you could have also used object from the environment like pipe and other to defend yourself from zombies and spare ammo... The section in the nidipaya ruin was only exploration and solving enigma
Just take a look at this link to see what I m talking about: https://www.relyonhorror.com/in-depth/resident-evil-5-beta-4-5-information-lost-scrapped-concepts/

I already posted this but probably nobody cared on reading this

So in my opinion it was resident evil 5 who ruined the series and take it to a more action oriented oriented game, yeah redident evil 4 introduced more action but the tension, the atmosphere and horror were there, there was also exploration , the original concept of resident evil 5 was less action (the action was still there since we have some war zone section but they were actually good) and based more on exploration and enigma and surviving...
So they were going into a good direction before gears of War came out and they decides to scrap everything and just copy resident evil 4 gameplay and lore only whit more action Co op and linear level

 

[Deleted member 21244]

Resident Evil 5 and 6 are true Resident Evil games. How can you say that? That's just your opinion, not an absolute truth. How dare you say Resident Evil 6 is an abomination. What's your motivation? It has zombies and mystery and a corporation, that's what Resident Evil always was.

Pleas stop....I m trying to have a conversation whit the other people on this forum and I'm no longer interested in hearing your childish attitude, you are just becoming ridicolous, and I didnt post that thing as an absolute things but as an opinion of mine while in the other post you simply write things as they were absolute while the other opinion didn't count... Also read better because I didn't say That resident evil 5 and 6 are true re game, I write the exact opposite...
Now if you can pleas stop whit this ridicolous things and just get over it I will appreciate it

 

[Turo602]

Pleas stop....I m trying to have a conversation whit the other people on this forum and I'm no longer interested in hearing your childish attitude, you are just becoming ridicolous, and I didnt post that thing as an absolute things but as an opinion of mine while in the other post you simply write things as they were absolute while the other opinion didn't count... Also read better because I didn't say That resident evil 5 and 6 are true re game, I write the exact opposite...
Now if you can pleas stop whit this ridicolous things and just get over it I will appreciate it

That's exactly how ridiculous you've been sounding because it's the same exact crap you've been telling me. You see the irony here? If you don't like it, then stop bullsh*tting others and read what people are saying rather than making sh*t up about them.

 

[Deleted member 21244]

That's exactly how ridiculous you've been sounding because it's the same exact crap you've been telling me. You see the irony here? If you don't like it, then stop bullsh*tting others and read what people are saying rather than making sh*t up about them.

I didn't write exactly this ****, and I readed what you say but simply doesn't shared it, and you insulted me many time because of this, and every time you posted it almost looked like your opinion was a fact while the other opinion weren't...
Now pleas stop and get over it dude

 

[Turo602]

I didn't write exactly like, and I readed what you say but simply doesn't shared it, and you insulted me many time because of this, and every time you posted it almost looked like you opinion was a fact while the other opinion weren't...
No pleas stop and get over it dude

Then you clearly don't know how to read. I'm over it, but there's clearly no helping you, so that's good to know for future reference.

And LMAO! Yes you do.