What are you Thinking? Resident Evil Edition!

[Hel]

+++ WONDERFUL NEWS! +++

So Sherry does have a less ugly alternative outfit after all...

Spoiler

If Claire wears her classic outfit, Sherry slips into hers as well! And just like with the default costumes, once they get to the lab, Claire will take off her vest and put it on Sherry, running around in a tank top and short pants for the remainder of the game.

Also, if Leon wears his classic uniform, Ada will appear in her red dress right away, without sunglasses. In her case, it's not a remake of the original dress, just the one she regularly wears under the coat, but I suppose that's good enough for people who simply don't like the coat. Once Leon gets shot, his classic outfit will have white bandages around the upper body, like in the original RE2.

 

[Jonipoon]

It was always my understanding, however, that they were both main installment titles and not spinoffs that were simply promoted to main title status. Perhaps someone else can help clear that up for the both of us.

I think in the end it all boils down to which game in the series that introduced you to Resident Evil. I think many hardcore fans played RE2 first, since Resident Evil had become a household name at the time of its release. I just don't understand why many RE2 fans seem to hate on RE3.

But I really despise such fan rumors. It creates unnecessary tension between fans.

 

[Springhosen]

I think in the end it all boils down to which game in the series that introduced you to Resident Evil. I think many hardcore fans played RE2 first, since Resident Evil had become a household name at the time of its release. I just don't understand why many RE2 fans seem to hate on RE3.

But I really despise such fan rumors. It creates unnecessary tension between fans.

I don't think it has anything to do with what first introduced you to the series and more to do with people wanting to start ****. Any numbered title is a main installment, period. CVX is a main installment. It fits in the main universe and the story continues the main story with main characters.

That's what a main installment is. Period. I would even go so far as to say that the Revelations games, while considered spinoffs, technically fit in the main series. They follow main characters and the events are, as far as I know, acknowledged in main series canon.

I mean I dislike Resident Evil 4 but that doesn't change the fact that it is a main installment. I don't understand why there has to be so much drama over something so mundane or why people feel the need to start an argument or discredit something that they don't like or didn't feel was up to snuff.

 

[Hel]

Is it true that so many RE2 fans hate RE3? Wow, I never noticed! But in a way, if that's the case, I can understand why, and if you bear with me for a little while, I'll try to explain: When you play a game that you really like, and hear that there's a sequel in the works, you expect it to become something bigger and better, which RE3... just isn't.

I've been attacked in the past for saying this, but I'll say it again because it's less an opinion and more an objective observation if you're willing to put all personal feelings aside. RE2 had two characters to choose from, so basically two campaigns, each with A and B scenarios, three difficulty levels, and two unlockable extra modes (or even three, if you count 4th Survivor and Tofu Survivor as separate modes). RE3 has almost all of this as well, but only half the amount of each, and nothing to make up for it other than a live selection feature which can alter your playthrough and the ending slightly, but not too much.

Story-wise, it's also not the most thrilling or even original, the only twist being that Nicolai is evil (who would have guessed that?), and for the rest, they basically just copied and pasted everything that worked in previous games: It's still the same setting as in RE2, there's a persistent stalker, a character gets infected and then cured, we run into someone we're not sure we can trust because they're working for Umbrella, there's a traitor in our midst, and so on. Granted, Nemesis puts the original Mister X to shame, and Jill has more outfits to choose from than Leon and Claire combined, but... it's not enough to count as "bigger and better", and that's probably what some players are upset about.

As for Code Veronica being the "true" RE3, I've heard that before, but I'm not so sure about it either. The one thing that game has over RE3 is the relevance of its plot to the lore as a whole: Claire's original journey comes to an end because she finally finds Chris, we learn that Wesker is still alive and more powerful than ever, and the Veronica virus comes up again later in the series. In contrast, all we learn from RE3 is that Jill survives Raccoon City, along with a few other characters who are never seen or mentioned again. But other than that, Code Veronica is just a game with three times the length of previous classic REs and no replay value whatsoever, so whether or not you can call that a worthy sequel is anyone's guess.

Well, that was my analysis of the subject. But in the end, it doesn't really matter for our enjoyment of these games, because I actually hate Code Veronica and love RE3, and that wouldn't change even if Capcom suddenly decided to switch titles and call Code Veronica RE3 from now on.

 

[Springhosen]

I don't hate any of the original four, I enjoy them all; though I do get tired of people acting like Resident Evil 2 was the only game worth anything in the series for a while. That's extremely annoying to me, even if it is one of my favorites and probably my most played Resident Evil game.

Just because one game stood out to you doesn't make the others **** it just means that you preferred one over some others. Resident Evil 2 and CVX are probably my favorites of the main series, though. For some reason I really think they went all out for the games that Claire is in, lol. RE2, the remake, CVX and Revelations 2 were all great games and some of the highlights of the series for me.

Spoiler

On the other side of that, however, I've always enjoyed Nemesis and what it brought to the table. (Quick turn, the dodge feature, mixing gunpowder, Nemesis, the return of Jill, etc.)

 

[Hel]

I'm totally with you there, Magnolia. As one of the four or five people in this universe who like RE6 and Operation Raccoon City, but not so much everybody's darling RE4, I'm basically the personification of an unpopular opinion. The secret is to not let other people's opinions ruin your fun. Sometimes one just has to ignore what everybody else says.

 

[Springhosen]

I'm totally with you there, Magnolia. As one of the four or five people in this universe who like RE6 and Operation Raccoon City, but not so much everybody's darling RE4, I'm basically the personification of an unpopular opinion. The secret is to not let other people's opinions ruin your fun. Sometimes one just has to ignore what everybody else says.

I loved ORC! Not RE6 as much - there were parts about it that I enjoyed but it's definitely not my favorite - but I like RE5.

Can't stand RE4, though. An opinion is just that, an opinion.

 

[Jonipoon]

I hear both of you. And thank you, Hel, for explaining more about the possible reason as to why there's a vast amount of RE2-fans disliking RE3.

But if people expected RE3 to be bigger and better after playing RE2, what about the people who played RE1 and expected something bigger and better in RE2? To be fair, out of the first three games I've only played RE3, however I've now played both the 2002 and 2019 remakes. Level-wise, to me it looks like RE2 copied almost every level from RE1 (mansion that leads to secret lab VS station that leads to secret lab). Story-wise, we're basically following two characters that are realizing that Umbrella is behind it all in both RE1 and RE2. I'm not saying this is bad, because the execution is totally different and I really love both of the remakes. But while RE3 does have only one protagonist, and an oldie at that, at least it's not the same setup and story again.

But it might just be me. I tend to value story above everything else, even gameplay. I hope I'll get the chance to try Code Veronica, for the story.

 

[Hel]

@Jonipoon This may sound rude, but rest assured I don't mean it that way, it's a serious question: If you're that much into stories, then what exactly do you get out of RE3? As I said before, it's basically only about Jill escaping the city, with nothing terribly interesting or unpredictable happening along the way, even Nemesis isn't new because that element was borrowed from RE2, and other than Jill catching a virus (which was also borrowed from RE2), none of the game's events are ever brought up again. So what exactly makes the story of RE3 especially meaningful, unique, and/or memorable to you?

I'd say if you want something unique, play ORC. Yes, I know, the game is not very popular, and although I'm one of its few fans, I'm not blind to its technical flaws either. But story-wise, it's one of a kind in the RE series, despite overlapping with the events of RE2 and 3 (in a non-canon way).

And yes, go for Code Veronica as well! As much as I dislike it as a game, I did find the story and the characters quite intriguing, and it comes up with one of the most unexpected plot twists. (One that is well-known today... But who would have expected that back then?)

 

[Jonipoon]

@Jonipoon This may sound rude, but rest assured I don't mean it that way, it's a serious question: If you're that much into stories, then what exactly do you get out of RE3? As I said before, it's basically only about Jill escaping the city, with nothing terribly interesting or unpredictable happening along the way, even Nemesis isn't new because that element was borrowed from RE2, and other than Jill catching a virus (which was also borrowed from RE2), none of the game's events are ever brought up again. So what exactly makes the story of RE3 especially meaningful, unique, and/or memorable to you?

I'd say if you want something unique, play ORC. Yes, I know, the game is not very popular, and although I'm one of its few fans, I'm not blind to its technical flaws either. But story-wise, it's one of a kind in the RE series, despite overlapping with the events of RE2 and 3 (in a non-canon way).

And yes, go for Code Veronica as well! As much as I dislike it as a game, I did find the story and the characters quite intriguing, and it comes up with one of the most unexpected plot twists. (One that is well-known today... But who would have expected that back then?)

I think it's mostly because the story is very simple, but executed well. Since the focus is entirely on Jill and Nemesis, it feels very personal. You feel for Jill making her last escape. While playing the 2002 remake I was much more focused on the mansion and virus conspiracy, feeling like a detective uncovering a big secret.
A big tyrant has been the staple of the series ever since the first game where you fight one not once but twice, so I don't think Mr. X deserves the credit for being the first doing that. Now obviously Nemesis took the stalking aspects from Mr. X, but Mr. X is not the focus of RE2 but simply a side character. Nemesis is in the very title of the game and for a good reason - he's the only tyrant with an actual personality. Although he only says one word that's more than enough to make him stand out. I think that's the reason why Nemesis continues to be one of the most well-recognized monsters in the horror game genre.

Additionally, we can't forget the fact that Raccoon City gets destroyed at the end of RE3. That's like... one of the most major events in the Resident Evil universe.

 

[Springhosen]

@Jonipoon As much as I enjoyed Nemesis, purely on the basis of being a Jill fan, I must say that @Hel is correct; it doesn't bring much to the series story wise. (It's a great fan service game, though!)

Code Veronica should most definitely be on the top of the "must buy" list for you if you enjoy stories. I honestly feel as though CVX has the most to offer story wise of any Resident Evil game! While the game itself can be a bit tedious with the crazy amount of backtracking - and I mean WAY more backtracking than what's usual, even for Resi games - and the fact that they removed the dodge function that had been introduced in Nemesis when it was really probably needed for this game considering some of the enemies, it definitely has one of the better stories.

 

[bSTAR_182]

I don’t hate RE3 but if I had the choice, Code Veronica would get remade over RE3. I feel like they could have worked RE3’s story into REmake2’s since a good chunk of it takes place in the same areas.

 

[Mr.R]

Well, I think I'm gonna drop my two cents here.

I agree with Hel, that RE3 don't bring anything much in the story or the lore in general (even though, back then the epilogues were a nice closure on the Raccoon City incident.) RE3 was actually the first one I played and to me, it's absolutely the best on the fixed camera era. It doesn't have the atmosphere of RE Remake, or the good story of RE1 or 2, but the gameplay for me, it's hands down the best. As much as I love Remake, the gameplay is overly slow and sluggish. I also think RE3 is better than the original RE2, which is way too easy for its own good. So, even the story of RE3 being so-so, it's still the most fun of the fixed camera era for me. I love that game.

Also, I hate CVX. If RE3 for me is the best of old school, CVX is the worst. The story is silly, the villains are overly silly (I don't know how people complain about Saddler but likes Alexia, which has the same level of absurdity), the gameplay takes three steps back from RE3. Even the animations are weird. Plus, zero replayabilty.

But it's all boils down to opinion. I love RE4, I love RE6 (yeah, I know it got flaws, but I like the game. It's so good to simply pick up and play a campaign. It doesn't need much compromise.). To wrap things up. I actually don't think fans of RE2 hate 3 or something. I never, ever saw comments like that on forums or anywhere. I think this is just someone trying to make it up a story to get some attention. Oh well...

 

[Turo602]

When people say Resident Evil 3 is a spin-off, it's not a knock on the game. Resident Evil 3 did originally start as a spin-off project that took place on a cruise ship, and Code Veronica was the true next installment in the series, hence why it was being developed for the next gen Dreamcast.

What I heard, is that Capcom had a deal with Sony that only they would get the numbered installments, so rather than downgrade their true next installment and develop it on the Playstation, they just slapped a 3 on their spin-off project Nemesis and even gave it the subtitle Nemesis which makes me believe it was just originally Resident Evil: Nemesis.

Now just because it's a spin-off doesn't mean it's not a canon entry in the series. It just means that it's a deviation from the main plot and won't get the same triple A development a brand new installment usually gets, sort of like the Revelations series. If you look at Resident Evil 1, 2, CV, and 4, there's a clear progression in the scope and budget of each game. Each one getting bigger and moving the series forward with its ideas.

It's the same with any other video game series. Halo 3: ODST is very canon to Halo, yet it's regarded as a spin-off as it doesn't move the series forward and is still heavily using the same assets and graphics as Halo 3. Ubisoft has said the same about Assassin's Creed. A true numbered sequel to the series was highlighted by a change in assassin, time period, and overall progression in its presentation and gameplay. AC: Brotherhood and AC: Revelations are spin-offs to AC II, but they're still important pieces of the story, yet graphically, they're just borrowing from II, whereas Assassin's Creed III shows us a jump in graphics and a complete overhaul of the game's mechanics.

It's just unfortunate that in Code Veronica's case, people often disregard it as they only paid attention to the numbered entries. I cannot count the many times I've watched a video and heard someone refer to only 1, 2, and 3 as the classics and then move onto 4, completely snubbing Code Veronica.

So while the games are both undeniably canon entries into the series, "officially," Nemesis is the sequel and Code Veronica is the spin-off based purely on the titles they were given, but truthfully, it's the other way around.

 

[Jonipoon]

Forgive me if this following post sounds rude; it is most definitely not my intention.

Personally I just feel the argument about "this is the true sequel and this is the spin-off" is quite tiredsome, it's the same when it comes to almost all game franchises. There are many games that go through long development cycles and change names, gameplay aspects, stories and even switch protagonists. Who cares if RE3 wasn't originally intended to a main title? Who cares if it was? It is now, and has been since 1999.

In the Silent Hill community, which I've been a part of for a much longer time, there is a similar argument made by many fans that Silent Hill 4: The Room wasn't originally intended to be part of the series but a "unrelated spin-off". Which is completely wrong and made-up fan rumor, based on the fact that Team Silent that's behind the original series was split in two after the second installment, and had one team work on Silent Hill 3 and the other on Silent Hill 4. And while SH4 originally did start as a spin-off, it was always intended to be part of the series. During production the team realized that it would work better as a main title, and so it was settled.

I see many similarities between the RE and Silent Hill community when it comes to their respective second installments. Silent Hill 2 is undoubtedly the most praised game in the series, and unsurprisingly it is also the easiest game in the series. Silent Hill 2 basically throws ammo and health items at you, even at hard mode, so I think many people have it as their favorite because they finished it with ease. Likewise, Silent Hill 4 is considered to be very difficult, and many people gave up half-through. In the video essay I linked to before, the narrating guy claims that RE3 is too difficult. See any similarites here?

I'm not trying to sh*it on RE2, no, definitely not. I actually really love the remake, its one of my favorite games ever and I really enjoy it. I also don't want people to think that I'm antagonizing them in this thread.

To wrap things up. I actually don't think fans of RE2 hate 3 or something. I never, ever saw comments like that on forums or anywhere. I think this is just someone trying to make it up a story to get some attention. Oh well...

In my original post I referred to a YouTube essay with lots of negative comments on it. I was looking to start an open discussion about it since I'm simply curious, its unfortunate that you feel its just for attention. Although I think that the word "hate" is a quite strong word that I clearly misused, I should have used the word "dislike" instead.

 

[Mr.R]

Jonipoon: I think I owe you an apology. I expressed myself badly. I wasn't talking about you when I mentioned someone trying to get some attention. I was referring to the YouTube video!

 

[Turo602]

Forgive me if this following post sounds rude; it is most definitely not my intention.

Personally I just feel the argument about "this is the true sequel and this is the spin-off" is quite tiredsome, it's the same when it comes to almost all game franchises. There are many games that go through long development cycles and change names, gameplay aspects, stories and even switch protagonists. Who cares if RE3 wasn't originally intended to a main title? Who cares if it was? It is now, and has been since 1999.

In the Silent Hill community, which I've been a part of for a much longer time, there is a similar argument made by many fans that Silent Hill 4: The Room wasn't originally intended to be part of the series but a "unrelated spin-off". Which is completely wrong and made-up fan rumor, based on the fact that Team Silent that's behind the original series was split in two after the second installment, and had one team work on Silent Hill 3 and the other on Silent Hill 4. And while SH4 originally did start as a spin-off, it was always intended to be part of the series. During production the team realized that it would work better as a main title, and so it was settled.

I see many similarities between the RE and Silent Hill community when it comes to their respective second installments. Silent Hill 2 is undoubtedly the most praised game in the series, and unsurprisingly it is also the easiest game in the series. Silent Hill 2 basically throws ammo and health items at you, even at hard mode, so I think many people have it as their favorite because they finished it with ease. Likewise, Silent Hill 4 is considered to be very difficult, and many people gave up half-through. In the video essay I linked to before, the narrating guy claims that RE3 is too difficult. See any similarites here?

I'm not trying to sh*it on RE2, no, definitely not. I actually really love the remake, its one of my favorite games ever and I really enjoy it. I also don't want people to think that I'm antagonizing them in this thread.

I don't know anything about Silent Hill, but I just don't understand what the big deal is. I don't think there's any question that people accept Resident Evil 3 as a canon main entry into the series. I also can't say that I agree with notion that RE2 fans have something against RE3, and if they do, they're probably in the minority.

Honestly, I've always seen Resident Evil 3 as a fan favorite among the community. Maybe not to the extent of REmake, 2, and 4, but it's definitely not as disregarded or hated like all of the other entries in the series.

And that's really where this whole thing comes from. If Code Veronica weren't so disregarded, then people wouldn't feel the need to bring up that it was indeed the true third installment. Which it is. I don't get why anyone would be outraged over this information. It just is what it is.

 

[Hel]

+++ WARNING! +++

Once you see it ...

Spoiler

... YOU CAN'T UNSEE IT!

:lol:

 

[Jonipoon]

I don't know anything about Silent Hill, but I just don't understand what the big deal is. I don't think there's any question that people accept Resident Evil 3 as a canon main entry into the series. I also can't say that I agree with notion that RE2 fans have something against RE3, and if they do, they're probably in the minority.

Honestly, I've always seen Resident Evil 3 as a fan favorite among the community. Maybe not to the extent of REmake, 2, and 4, but it's definitely not as disregarded or hated like all of the other entries in the series.

And that's really where this whole thing comes from. If Code Veronica weren't so disregarded, then people wouldn't feel the need to bring up that it was indeed the true third installment. Which it is. I don't get why anyone would be outraged over this information. It's just is what it is.

That is true as well, wherever I go I usually see people praising RE3. Basically every video on YouTube about the RE2 remake contains at least one upvoted comment that says "Please remake RE3 next".

But I feel much better now after listening to you guys clearing things up for me. I can rest in peace knowing that that guy who made that essay is in the minority and was probably just looking for attention.

 

[Turo602]

That is true as well, wherever I go I usually see people praising RE3. Basically every video on YouTube about the RE2 remake contains at least one upvoted comment that says "Please remake RE3 next".

But I feel much better now after listening to you guys clearing things up for me. I can rest in peace knowing that that guy who made that essay is in the minority and was probably just looking for attention.

I don't think he was looking for attention. Funnily enough, I came across his videos yesterday while I was sick and I watched them all. While I don't necessarily agree with all of his opinions on each game, it's clear to me that he was trying to be critical and unbiased and critique the games for what they are. He's allowed to have his own opinions, even if they are controversial. But he merely gave some history to the game by bringing up that it was indeed meant to be a spin-off. The guy clearly seems to enjoy all the games, but in his effort to be critical, he found some faults to the game that even I could admit were pretty valid.