Rain611
You can't kill me.
I really hope that's not the case.
Resident Evil 4 remake!
- Thread starter Jamesy
- Start date
RipvanX
Well-Known Member
It’s no better than Matrix Wesker, Enhanced C-Virus and Megamycete/Cadou mutations literally creating mythological creatures and super powered characters that belong in Marvel/DC/X-Men universes. Seeing Leon jumping out of windows, doing roundhouse kicks, and parrying chainsaws seems pretty tame in comparison. I’ll take the action hero route everytime over the superpower shenanigans.
In regards to the dead forums; I think a lot has to do with how oversaturated RE4 releases have been throughout the decades, hence the video making fun of that. There are people who are also skeptical after how poorly RE:3 was treated, then we get Re:Verse and a Netflix show no one asked for that left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth.
Regardless, I am still hype for this reimagining and seeing what they cut out. Hopefully the minigun and military enemies are nowhere to be found. If I had it my way, the military and superpower stuff would of NEVER touched this franchise. If they keep iterating they are going for a more “grounded” approach for these new RE Engine games, than they need to keep all that nonsense out.
In regards to the dead forums; I think a lot has to do with how oversaturated RE4 releases have been throughout the decades, hence the video making fun of that. There are people who are also skeptical after how poorly RE:3 was treated, then we get Re:Verse and a Netflix show no one asked for that left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth.
Regardless, I am still hype for this reimagining and seeing what they cut out. Hopefully the minigun and military enemies are nowhere to be found. If I had it my way, the military and superpower stuff would of NEVER touched this franchise. If they keep iterating they are going for a more “grounded” approach for these new RE Engine games, than they need to keep all that nonsense out.
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Turo602
The King of Kings
He didn't though... Yes, he jumped through the window, but it was far more realistic looking than the original. He actually covers his face, tucks his legs in, and falls straight down onto his feet before he rolls. The only thing I'd consider silly about it is the superhero landing and the speed of the whole animation. But that's nothing compared to the ridiculous head first through the window flipping in mid-air animation from the original.
Ikawaru
Well-Known Member
The footage we got and also 'Shadows of Rose' demonstrated that they are at least dabbling into stealth-like gameplay, which I think could be a positive, but only if they do it right. Every attempt Capcom has made thus far at incorporating stealth has been fairly shallow, but I think there could be potential.
Really can't say I was impressed with the rest, it just struck me as a carbon copy of 2005 RE4 and none of the little additional gameplay gimmicks were able to stand out from that.
Really can't say I was impressed with the rest, it just struck me as a carbon copy of 2005 RE4 and none of the little additional gameplay gimmicks were able to stand out from that.
Jonipoon
Professional Sandwich Consumer
Fair enough. I've only played RE4 once so my memory has faded a bit...
It begs the question though how much stealth will actually play into the tactics of gameplay. Will it be helpful in smaller areas where you might be low on ammo and have to sneak up or past enemies? Will it be useful at all? Because if the game throws as much ammo and health at you as Village did, you might as well blast your way through them. Hopefully it's not just a shiny gimmick.
Ikawaru
Well-Known Member
It probably will be for RE4R, the question is the scale of it. If we can get the impression that they are "going in that direction" to a certain degree, as with 'Shadows of Rose', then I'm thinking stealth and espionage could be a viable option in RE9 or Revelations 3 (whichever they decide to do first).
I don't think that would be a bad thing for the franchise if they branch out a little bit with gameplay options. Borrowing a page from 'The Evil Within' or 'Prey (2017)' which had three different skill trees with emphasis on combat, stealth, and science, would allow for more diverse playstyles. They would have to achieve this without diluting the survival horror nature of the franchise though.
Supernatural "bioweapons" in the franchise are bad but let's face it, a narrow focus on action gunplay superhero protagonists isn't any better.
Ikawaru
Well-Known Member
Stealth takedowns are in! Definitely upping the ante on multi-facted combat and lots of ways to dispatch enemies, I'll consider this a positive.
Turo602
The King of Kings
The more I see of this game the more I want it. The gameplay looks incredible and although it's still very fast-paced, there's definitely a lot more going on mechanically and visually that will surely give this version more of a survival horror edge than the original.
So far, the village seems to be very faithful, although they've recently confirmed it'll be bigger and possibly have more to explore and backtrack through, which is exactly what I wanted from this.
It also looks like there's gonna be a lot less double doors to load you into the next area. I know no loading screens have been the trend with these games lately, but I imagine it's gonna make the village feel much larger without any barriers in the layout.
Something that has also been pointed out that I actually said would have been a great addition before is the inclusion of a storage at the merchant. This will definitely make replays much more interesting now that it's a lot easier to experiment with different weapons without having to clear your inventory by selling them.
I've actually just revisited my professional playthrough of RE4 from the Xbox One remaster after having left it behind from feeling burnt out on the game. I left off at the end of chapter 3 where you play as Ashley and my god... the pacing of chapter 4 is just absolutely terrible. There's great moments in there for sure, but it honestly does feel like a bunch of set pieces just stitched together with no rhyme or reason.
I've always felt like the game kinda fell apart at the castle, but playing through it again, I really hope the remake just completely does away with a lot of these sections or at least improves them. It's like a series of combat areas just meant to drain your ammo, making the game feel mundane and exhausting.
The village has always been the best part of the game, although not perfect either, but it's certainly what the game is known for, but after that, it just fails to match that same energy with how ridiculous and overbearing the castle and island are.
It's also very telling that they haven't really shown much of those areas in the remake. I can only hope this is due to the extreme alterations they've made to them to keep the game feeling grounded and scary with proper build up to each memorable set piece and not just one shooting gallery after another.
So far, the village seems to be very faithful, although they've recently confirmed it'll be bigger and possibly have more to explore and backtrack through, which is exactly what I wanted from this.
It also looks like there's gonna be a lot less double doors to load you into the next area. I know no loading screens have been the trend with these games lately, but I imagine it's gonna make the village feel much larger without any barriers in the layout.
Something that has also been pointed out that I actually said would have been a great addition before is the inclusion of a storage at the merchant. This will definitely make replays much more interesting now that it's a lot easier to experiment with different weapons without having to clear your inventory by selling them.
I've actually just revisited my professional playthrough of RE4 from the Xbox One remaster after having left it behind from feeling burnt out on the game. I left off at the end of chapter 3 where you play as Ashley and my god... the pacing of chapter 4 is just absolutely terrible. There's great moments in there for sure, but it honestly does feel like a bunch of set pieces just stitched together with no rhyme or reason.
I've always felt like the game kinda fell apart at the castle, but playing through it again, I really hope the remake just completely does away with a lot of these sections or at least improves them. It's like a series of combat areas just meant to drain your ammo, making the game feel mundane and exhausting.
The village has always been the best part of the game, although not perfect either, but it's certainly what the game is known for, but after that, it just fails to match that same energy with how ridiculous and overbearing the castle and island are.
It's also very telling that they haven't really shown much of those areas in the remake. I can only hope this is due to the extreme alterations they've made to them to keep the game feeling grounded and scary with proper build up to each memorable set piece and not just one shooting gallery after another.
Ikawaru
Well-Known Member
I always liked the Castle part the best, especially that part in the large room where you snipe cultists trying to stop Ashley from winding those gears. Sure, it's nothing to write home about now, at all, but at the time (I literally snagged a copy upon Gamecube release), it just felt so surreal and above and beyond anything before it. The way the music played and the chanting noises the cultists made...the "wow" factor was through the roof at that time. It seemed so brilliantly choreographed, perhaps too much so for a video game.
Turo602
The King of Kings
Don't get me wrong, the castle is a great setting and it does have its iconic and memorable sections, but my problem is with the pacing and overall design of it.
As an action game, it doesn't really hold up, especially when they start throwing multiple encounters at you with annoying bow shooting enemies and you can't strafe, take cover, or really shoot them without exposing yourself and taking damage by brute forcing your way through.
By this point in the game, most of the encounters just feel like generic action stages, but they're made worse by the fact that the game still relys on the series' staple survival horror gameplay and tropes, which for me personally, worked better in the early part of the game because you were so underpowered, swarmed by villagers, and relied on the environment a lot more than you do in a lot of the tight corridor shoot outs you find yourself in later in the game.
I know RE4 was impressive for the time, I was there, but I highlight these issues now because the more and more I replay it, the same thing tends to happen to me around a certain point in the game, and I just get bored of it.
I love Resident Evil 4 as a video game, but I say this more in relation to the remake which is something I've said the game needed for years and now that it's real, I just hope they address a lot of what I took issue with that made me advocate for a remake to begin with.
I've always believed less is more with horror games and now that they're leaning towards horror more with this remake, I hope we get proper build up and tension to those big moments in the castle and island and not just a series of mundane or nonsensical encounters.
At the very least, the gameplay loop should be a lot more interesting in this remake given all the new layers they've added to combat.
As an action game, it doesn't really hold up, especially when they start throwing multiple encounters at you with annoying bow shooting enemies and you can't strafe, take cover, or really shoot them without exposing yourself and taking damage by brute forcing your way through.
By this point in the game, most of the encounters just feel like generic action stages, but they're made worse by the fact that the game still relys on the series' staple survival horror gameplay and tropes, which for me personally, worked better in the early part of the game because you were so underpowered, swarmed by villagers, and relied on the environment a lot more than you do in a lot of the tight corridor shoot outs you find yourself in later in the game.
I know RE4 was impressive for the time, I was there, but I highlight these issues now because the more and more I replay it, the same thing tends to happen to me around a certain point in the game, and I just get bored of it.
I love Resident Evil 4 as a video game, but I say this more in relation to the remake which is something I've said the game needed for years and now that it's real, I just hope they address a lot of what I took issue with that made me advocate for a remake to begin with.
I've always believed less is more with horror games and now that they're leaning towards horror more with this remake, I hope we get proper build up and tension to those big moments in the castle and island and not just a series of mundane or nonsensical encounters.
At the very least, the gameplay loop should be a lot more interesting in this remake given all the new layers they've added to combat.
Ikawaru
Well-Known Member
Regarding the video, anyone else get some serious RE1 vibes from 7:00-7:50? With the polyurethane staircase, the Victorian era wallpaper, the bookshelves, paintings, and tapestry all of which struck me as quite 'Resident Evil'. The more I watch the video the more I notice the eye for little details being stunning, as each interior in the village alone feels unique and varied. I mean yeah, it's still an RE4 REmake, and contains some things that aren't exactly thrilling to me (return of the Merchant, flat weapon upgrades, apparent lack of a diverse set of weapon attachments, etc) but they are seriously making some inroads in other gameplay areas and art direction and Capcom really appears to be learning from their past mistakes. It's cool when you keep expectations low, that way you're pleasantly surprised when unexpected design improvements come at you.
Rain611
You can't kill me.
I pre-ordered this on Tuesday. Hopefully it's as good as it looks because I hated the original. Heh.
Jonipoon
Professional Sandwich Consumer
I didn't hate the original but it didn't feel like a RE game to me. It was an awesome game on its own and I had an absolute blast playing it, but everything I'm seeing from this remake just feels like they're fixing all the things I disliked about the original and turning it into a darker, more grounded experience that resembles a classic RE title.
Frag Maniac
Well-Known Member
Even though I loved the original, I'm fully willing to accept some gameplay changes to make it less arcade, and more suspenseful, challenging, and dark. I DO worry a bit that without Mikami, Capcom might struggle to achieve such changes as well as he could. He certainly demonstrated with The Evil Within, he could make even regular zombies more capable as far as tracking the location of the protagonist by sound, being harder to sneak up on, and being very unpredictable when prone. The match throwing, bottle stunning, and scrap gathering also added more dimensions to combat variety, resource strategy, and challenge.
I say all this however knowing full well I'm in the minority, otherwise Mikami wouldn't have dumbed down TEW 2 by making zombies only track by sight, then quickly retreat, adding an auto takedown cover system, and making it pretty easy to evade a lot of the tougher enemies by sneaking past them in a large open world area. I mean hell, you really don't even have to kill the Guardian on your first forced encounter with her, she's pretty easy to sneak past, even whilst gathering a fair bit of loot. In fact there's not a single Guardian in the whole game you have to kill, making the intimidating design of the mosnter feel pointless.
So yeah, I'm all for a survival horror aspect in games, and a dark atmosphere, but it has to be serious about it when it comes to dealing with enemies. Otherwise it feels like you've only been duped into thinking it's world is dark and hard to survive. The best Survival Horror games to me are the ones that take a few play throughs to master, and scale well into higher difficulty modes by making enemies more alert and faster, and traps harder to disarm. TEW 1 did all this and what I mentioned above, yet most players were too impatient to learn how to play it well enough to fully appreciate the design.
I'll end by saying while Mikami has revealed he is not really interested in making survival horror games anymore, I have to wonder if that wouldn't be the case if more players had appreciated what he did with TEW 1, vs causing him to think he had to dumb it down to the fake survival horror mess that TEW 2 is. A lot of players like I said just lack the patience anymore to appreciate games that are designed with really good replay value by making you work for that win.
I say all this however knowing full well I'm in the minority, otherwise Mikami wouldn't have dumbed down TEW 2 by making zombies only track by sight, then quickly retreat, adding an auto takedown cover system, and making it pretty easy to evade a lot of the tougher enemies by sneaking past them in a large open world area. I mean hell, you really don't even have to kill the Guardian on your first forced encounter with her, she's pretty easy to sneak past, even whilst gathering a fair bit of loot. In fact there's not a single Guardian in the whole game you have to kill, making the intimidating design of the mosnter feel pointless.
So yeah, I'm all for a survival horror aspect in games, and a dark atmosphere, but it has to be serious about it when it comes to dealing with enemies. Otherwise it feels like you've only been duped into thinking it's world is dark and hard to survive. The best Survival Horror games to me are the ones that take a few play throughs to master, and scale well into higher difficulty modes by making enemies more alert and faster, and traps harder to disarm. TEW 1 did all this and what I mentioned above, yet most players were too impatient to learn how to play it well enough to fully appreciate the design.
I'll end by saying while Mikami has revealed he is not really interested in making survival horror games anymore, I have to wonder if that wouldn't be the case if more players had appreciated what he did with TEW 1, vs causing him to think he had to dumb it down to the fake survival horror mess that TEW 2 is. A lot of players like I said just lack the patience anymore to appreciate games that are designed with really good replay value by making you work for that win.
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Ikawaru
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately 'The Evil Within' did have a story that did deserve some criticism, and Mikami is known for great gameplay designs and making the most out of limited resources but also being a lackluster writer/story teller. I think that if he completely left the story to other people for 'The Evil Within' and strictly stuck to his forte, great gameplay, it may have went down in history as a modern classic and not just a "flawed gem" in which other developers can borrow great gameplay elements, because RE4R is clearly and correctly taking some inspiration from 'The Evil Within'. Also, there's no backtracking in TEW and uses the lame "Chapter" system, which also kinda hurts its survival horror credibility.
Also, funny how one of RE4R developers (forgot who) just literally stated that 'Biohazard' should be more about science fiction horror and less about supernatural/fantasy horror when asked about the new "Ganado" wearing a bull/cow mask of their face and weilding a large hammer but not being a literal minotaur. I mean yeah, it's a bit too little too late considering 'Village' did happen and is a thing, but I suppose it's never too late to correct course.
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Frag Maniac
Well-Known Member
I don't think stories in games are usually something to get too nit picky about, especially horror content games. I mean someone could just as well say about The Last of US, "So we're fighting mushroom zombies now"? Yet TLoU always gets touted as some of the best story writing in horror, but if you notice, most of that is just due to a lot of sobby moments between HUMAN characters. The Walking Dead TV show is the same way, lots of people claim it's writing brilliance, others will say it's the same BS over and over, often fighting between human factions.Unfortunately 'The Evil Within' did have a story that did deserve some criticism, and Mikami is known for great gameplay designs and making the most out of limited resources but also being a lackluster writer/story teller. I think that if he completely left the story to other people for 'The Evil Within' and strictly stuck to his forte, great gameplay, it may have went down in history as a modern classic and not just a "flawed gem" in which other developers can borrow great gameplay elements, because RE4R is clearly and correctly taking some inspiration from 'The Evil Within'. Also, there's no backtracking in TEW and uses the lame "Chapter" system, which also kinda hurts its survival horror credibility.
Also, funny how one of RE4R developers (forgot who) just literally stated that 'Biohazard' should be more about science fiction horror and less about supernatural/fantasy horror when asked about the new "Ganado" wearing a bull/cow mask of their face and weilding a large hammer but not being a literal minotaur. I mean yeah, it's a bit too little too late considering 'Village' did happen and is a thing, but I suppose it's never too late to correct course.
As I clearly noted as well, I was speaking PRIMARILY of how the GAMEPLAY in TEW differs from RE4 original, and TEW 2. So in essence people can joke about stories or models or characters in games all they want, it's all personal preference, but if the gameplay itself isn't worth a damn, I have no interest in it.
Ikawaru
Well-Known Member
Trust me when I say this, if Shinji Mikami was in charge of 'Resident Evil 1' story, the series we know and love would not be a thing and 'Resident Evil' would have been a completely forgettable title. It was actually Kenichi Iwao, who oversaw the story, and contributed some of the most beloved and memorable characters, Jill, Chris, and Albert Wesker coupled with Mikami's ingeneious gameplay "crunching" based of the limited funds they had, that largely contributed to phenomenon of 'Resident Evil'.
Worth a read: http://gaming.moe/?p=1380
So yeah, I am of the opinion that story telling, mood, atmosphere, and characters can go a long way to contributing to the overall experience of a game, and takes more than great gameplay to create a solid fanbase.
Worth a read: http://gaming.moe/?p=1380
So yeah, I am of the opinion that story telling, mood, atmosphere, and characters can go a long way to contributing to the overall experience of a game, and takes more than great gameplay to create a solid fanbase.
Frag Maniac
Well-Known Member
Aaand as always without fail, you are also convinced it seems that yours is the only opinion that matters, and somehow the majority. Funny how I was just pondering earlier before reading this response that it's exactly that mindset in you that also contradicts what makes RE good, because the series didn't really take off until RE4 was released. So be careful what you wish for when you claim what the majority wants. You'd been better off agreeing that what makes a good story is a matter of opinion.
Ikawaru
Well-Known Member
Agreed! RE4 really has aged like vinegar, it was great for its time, but it's looking like most people are starting to see the logic that it really needed some classic 'Resident Evil' formula to make it a better, more authentic BIOHAZARD game. There will always be those action fans who still hold classic RE4 dear to them, but something tells me that these people will easily move on as soon as the next braindead 'Gears of War' successor comes out.
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Frag Maniac
Well-Known Member
The only one "braindead" here is you B. You cling to Eve as if it's the ONLY good game ever made. Get a life once and for all, you might just find you like something else. What I find really strange is you have gone on record saying you never typically even try, let alone play on hardest mode, and would rather unlock infinite ammo, which is about as arcade and silly as it gets, yet you think you can preach what real horror is and isn't. I mean the way you play is like what some games call story mode, where you're there just to observe, like it's supposed to be some kind of interactive movie. LOL
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