Is anybody else here a Christian?

[La Femme Fatale]

^ I remember watching a discussion on this with Bill Maher and Christine O'Donnell from years ago. She was saying the same thing about being a true Christian and never lying. Bill had given her a hypothetical scenario and asked her that if she had been hiding Anne Frank and Hitler came to the door, if she'd lie to Hitler to save Anne. She said she wouldn't have lied. Not to protect her own ass, but because lying is a sin.

That's cold. Some people need to learn to think for themselves. Although, I wouldn't exactly classify Christine O'Donnell as a true Christian. This discussion just reminded me of that.

 

[Romero]

If we could live our lives without lying, we could probably live our lives without committing other sins. Why would God send Jesus if that was the case. Point made.

 

[La Femme Fatale]

If we could live our lives without lying, we could probably live our lives without committing other sins. Why would God send Jesus if that was the case. Point made.

Well there you go.

 

[Silverback]

I'm sorry, but just because you are a genuine Christian doesn't mean you never lie. Everyone does at some point in their life after all.

While almost everyone lie's at some point in their life, they must stop when they are baptized. Otherwise they are not being faithful to Jehovah.

Satan is the "Father of the Lie". So you're basically following the Devil if you go around telling lie's, so be careful what you say. Stand for truth.

Those of you who actually believe God is as real as we are won't tell lie's because it goes against God's own commandments.

Genuine Christian's are people who want to know Jehovah. (God's name in the Bible) They want an intimate relationship with Him and want to study His word, commandments and judicial decisons. They want to remain faithful to the end of this wicked system of things.

Are the people I mentioned liar's? I don't think they are, but if indeed they were, they wouldn't be follower's of God, regardless of what they did or said.

Peace out, everyone.

 

[Storyofmylife]

This may de-rail the track of conversation here but I've been wanting to talk about it somewhere. All my life I've had some serious trouble with pentecostals (the ones who handle snakes). They've always caused trouble for me just because I'm Catholic (now Orthodox). They love to say we worship Mary, were evil, the anti-christ and all that jazz. Now I've moved here and so far I have two pentecostal families who want me dead (long long story including their repressed gay son who hates me because I know he's gay, but I love gay people wtf?) and a family who lives next door to us whom were in a lawsuit with. (The husband was our contractor and put interior paint on the exterior of our house and has ruined it to the point of us never being able to re-sell it. The paint is falling off down to the wood and it's rotting. He doesn't think he's done wrong either, in fact he thinks WERE crazy. Everyone else agrees with us though.) Anyone else have problems with this particular evangelical sect?

I've also come into contact with the Roman Catholics here who are the most radical people I've ever met in my life. My former priest in my former parish for example told everyone in 08' if they voted on Obama they'd have to go to confession and wouldn't be able to receive communion. Also, if you weren't political, anti-abortion, anti-gay you were a "luke-warm Catholic" in his eyes. After a while I had enough of his political rantings and left the church. He was breeding some serious hate and I want nothing to do with that. That's why most of the time when asked about my faith I'm kind of hesitant to tell people. I don't want them to think I'm like all those crazy "Christians" they see in the media. The people who end up getting most of the attention from the media are the worst kind. Not all Christians are judgemental pious hypocrites, but a lot are. All I've ever been seeking is peace, and I'm glad I finally found it.

I guess I'm posting here to share my personal story as well. A few years back until I was 19 I was an Atheist. Devout Atheist So this is a big step for me, and to have people from the "Christian" side attack me like they have didn't deter me which was good, it actually made my faith a bit stronger, because no one started to attack me spiritually until I started believing. I have a lot of atheist, agnostic, buddhist, and all sorts of friends from different walks of life. My motto is to only stare at the plate I've got, mind my own business and hope others do the same for me. If not, then they're not worth talking to imo. I can still laugh at religious jokes, and even poke fun at a few things as well (Seriously? 2 of every animal on one boat? Right... I know that story is not to be taken literally, which is another pet peeve I have with ignorant Christians... Anyway that's for another time and I don't want to offend anyone!)... I think once you lose your sense of humor you lose your sense of God in a way.

 

[Meg]

While almost everyone lie's at some point in their life, they must stop when they are baptized. Otherwise they are not being faithful to Jehovah.
Satan is the "Father of the Lie". So you're basically following the Devil if you go around telling lie's, so be careful what you say. Stand for truth.
Those of you who actually believe God is as real as we are won't tell lie's because it goes against God's own commandments.
Genuine Christian's are people who want to know Jehovah. (God's name in the Bible) They want an intimate relationship with Him and want to study His word, commandments and judicial decisons. They want to remain faithful to the end of this wicked system of things.
Are the people I mentioned liar's? I don't think they are, but if indeed they were, they wouldn't be follower's of God, regardless of what they did or said.
Peace out, everyone.

So basically you expect everyone to be perfect or they are not a genuine Christian? You want people to stop lying once they are Baptized, or they are not faithful to God? Most Christians get Baptized when they are babies. Do you really expect a child to never lie?

By your logic faithful Christians never sin. (And if it's only lying that we can never do to be faithful, then why is that more important than the rest of the Commandments?) So the only way to be a faithful Christian is to be perfect. No. God is forgiving and merciful. He may be disappointed in us when we sin, but I strongly believe that he is more than willing to wait for us. I'm slowly but surely becoming closer to God because I want to be. I've always held myself up to a very strict moral code. One that I would never force onto another because I am not one to judge. But I follow it to the teeth. I beat myself up when I sin because I know I disappointed God.

Yes, I'll admit that I have lied in my lifetime and I will probably do it again before I die. Why? Because I'm flawed. Everyone is flawed. By your logic only perfect people are true followers of God. But no one is perfect. The point isn't to never sin. The point is to avoid it, but if you do lie (or whatever) to learn from your mistake and do your best to not make the same mistake twice.

You should look deep inside yourself and if you can truthfully say you have never broken one of God's Commandments then you can throw the first stone at my head. But if you find a single time in your life you were not 100% loyal to God's word then I rest my case.

snip to save space

Holy cannoli! They threw paint on your house? My goodness. I'm sorry to hear that.

I never liked it when a church tries to shove political nonsense onto everyone. We have a Catholic community center/church on campus. We had the honor of having a bishop come and say mass on Ash Wednesday. His homily was one of the best I ever heard. He talked about the importance just chilling out for a second and recognizing all the things we have to be thankful for. (Something I do everyday . ) If more masses were run like that I think more people would sorta-enjoy going to mass.

 

[Silverback]

If we could live our lives without lying, we could probably live our lives without committing other sins. Why would God send Jesus if that was the case. Point made.

This is, more or less, why we sin.

We once could live our lives without lying. We once lived our lives free from the bondage of sin.

At some point, however, Satan, who was formerly Lucifer, one of the three Archangels of Heaven, became haughty due to his wisdom and perfect beauty. The three Archangels were Michael (Jesus Christ), Gabriel, and Lucifer (Satan). - Rev. 5:11

These three Archangels each were incharge of a third of Heaven's Angels.

Inequity (lawlessness) was found in Lucifer - he had gradually become corrupt, and he believed he was deserving of God's throne and rulership. He therefor decided to attack God with his third of the Angels, whom he must have corrupted, in an attempt to seize Jehovah's throne. This took place to the North of Heaven, over the "empty place". Job 26:7

This failed, however, and Lucifer, now known as Satan the Devil, was hurled to the Earth with his third of the Angels, who themselves had become corrupt, wicked. They more or less became Demons. Wicked Spirits. Ezekiel 28:15-16

Satan was thrown to the Earth for the kings of the world to behold. Ezekiel 28:17

Satan has corrupted the Earth, having since tempted Eve to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.The wages sin pays is death. Romans 6: 1-23 This is why we sin, and die. This confirms our personal corruption.

To lie is to sin. Our parents, Adam and Eve once lived perfect lives in the Garden of Eden, but fell to temptation, inwhich Eve sinned, then caused Adam to sin, and again, through sin comes corruption and death.

We lie, Romero, because we are corrupt. We sin often because we are imperfect. Jesus had to come down and sacrifice Himself and shed his precious blood to atone for our sins, so we could be reconciled to Christ, and Jehovah God, and attain perfection once again, which we had lost.

God entrusted Adam and Eve to multiply and be fruitful in the world, so that they could create a holy Government on Earth. We would of had perfect lives.

We lost our perfection, because we were tempted by Satan when he was thrown to Earth. Satan and his wicked Angels desired to overthrow God's Government on Earth, and they succeeded, because Adam had lost his perfection.

Adam back then was perfect, and if he had been willing to obey God's instructions, he could have qualified to replace Satan and his future Government(s) and restore God's Government.

Once Adam & Eve were tempted/sinned, Adam lost his perfection and he could no longer qualify to restore God's Government, which would most likely prevent Satan overthrowing God's Government on Earth, and we of course, would have remained perfect, as you assumed we are.


In order to regain our perfection, a sacrifice of great value had to be made. This was the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ, our King. This sacrifice would save those who chose to live God's way, despite our struggles with temptation & imperfection, and through Christ, God would save obedient mankind, but would destroy those who continued to live the Devils way of life - Continually sinning and doing what is wrong and unholy in God's own eye's.

" believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved " Acts 16:31

" and as many as had been appointed to eternal life, believed." Acts 13:48


But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth. Rev 11:18

 

[La Femme Fatale]

So basically you expect everyone to be perfect or they are not a genuine Christian? You want people to stop lying once they are Baptized, or they are not faithful to God? Most Christians get Baptized when they are babies. Do you really expect a child to never lie?

By your logic faithful Christians never sin. (And if it's only lying that we can never do to be faithful, then why is that more important than the rest of the Commandments?) So the only way to be a faithful Christian is to be perfect. No. God is forgiving and merciful. He may be disappointed in us when we sin, but I strongly believe that he is more than willing to wait for us. I'm slowly but surely becoming closer to God because I want to be. I've always held myself up to a very strict moral code. One that I would never force onto another because I am not one to judge. But I follow it to the teeth. I beat myself up when I sin because I know I disappointed God.

Yes, I'll admit that I have lied in my lifetime and I will probably do it again before I die. Why? Because I'm flawed. Everyone is flawed. By your logic only perfect people are true followers of God. But no one is perfect. The point isn't to never sin. The point is to avoid it, but if you do lie (or whatever) to learn from your mistake and do your best to not make the same mistake twice.

You should look deep inside yourself and if you can truthfully say you have never broken one of God's Commandments then you can throw the first stone at my head. But if you find a single time in your life you were not 100% loyal to God's word then I rest my case.

Not to mention, lying isn't even the 'simplist' of all sins. If I understand correctly, your thoughts must always be pure as a Christian. Which means thinking about having sex with someone you're not married to is just as sinful as actually having sex with them. This seems nearly impossible for anyone to get around unless your Mother Theresa.

 

[Storyofmylife]

Holy cannoli! They threw paint on your house? My goodness. I'm sorry to hear that.

I never liked it when a church tries to shove political nonsense onto everyone. We have a Catholic community center/church on campus. We had the honor of having a bishop come and say mass on Ash Wednesday. His homily was one of the best I ever heard. He talked about the importance just chilling out for a second and recognizing all the things we have to be thankful for. (Something I do everyday . ) If more masses were run like that I think more people would sorta-enjoy going to mass.

I guess you could say they pretty much threw paint on our house. lol The husband was assigned as our contractor and was supposed to paint the house with exterior paint, but instead of using the paint we bought for him to use, he went and bought his own interior primer, stole our exterior paint for other projects and F'd up our house big time with a false building permit.

I've always felt that Church≠State as well. It's unfair when they try to influence your vote. I loved the Church though and the beautiful masses. The homily's just got way out of hand with all the political mess, and him saying that abortion is worse than Stalin, Hitler, and Mao combined. Having Jewish cousins in my family, I was extremely offended, and I'm also pro-choice and for women's rights. The people who went to this church believed that women still shouldn't have a right to an education, should obey their men and keep their mouths shut. I've never ever encountered a Catholic church like this until now. lol I guess that's what you get when you move to the least educated and most racist state in the country.

Not to mention, lying isn't even the 'simplist' of all sins. If I understand correctly, your thoughts must always be pure as a Christian. Which means thinking about having sex with someone you're not married to is just as sinful as actually committing having sex with them. This seems nearly impossible for anyone to get around unless your Mother Theresa.

Even Mother Theresa thought about it, it was just with Alter Boys so she got less of a penalty when she went to hell heaven. XD I read an article about her recently, and it's been proven she had hidden a lot of the scandal that was going on at the time with the priests and Alter Boys, she used to be a role model of mine, but now I must say I'm quite disappointed.

http://www.population-security.org/swom-96-09.htm <This article also mentions a few other things she did. Wow I'm really ****ed at Mother Theresa... Okay I'll stop ranting now!


Mod edit: Merged.

 

[Silverback]

So basically you expect everyone to be perfect or they are not a genuine Christian?

I do not. None of us are capable of living perfect lives in this day and age.

You want people to stop lying once they are Baptized, or they are not faithful to God?

If possible, then yes, I do. It is to be expected of a sincere Christian.

Most Christians get Baptized when they are babies.

Getting baptized on the forehead isn't a baptism at all. Baptism symbolizes our dedication to God, something a baby cannot commit itself to do. Therefor, forehead baptism isn't a baptism, because the baby isn't capable of knowing the difference between good and bad, right and wrong, and ultimately choosing the correct decision. It is pointless.

So it makes sense, then, that only we ourselves can make the decision to serve God and undergo the correct baptism, which is immersion baptism. A Priest or whoever cannot make that desion for us when we are mere babies. Only we can.

Do you really expect a child to never lie?

Of course not.

By your logic faithful Christians never sin.

No. What I was trying to imply was that faithful Christian's *try* not to sin, which can be hard because we were born into Adamic sin. We inherited sin off of our original parents, Adam and Eve.

This is also why we die, for the wages sin pays is death. Romans 6:1-23

(And if it's only lying that we can never do to be faithful, then why is that more important than the rest of the Commandments?)

I never suggested lying was anymore important than any of the other sins. To me, sin is sin. Thats it.

So the only way to be a faithful Christian is to be perfect.

Not true. I'm sorry if I came off as harsh. The only way to be a faithful Christian is to try to live by God's law, which I understand can be very hard to do. God doesn't expect us to simply *be* perfect. He understands we struggle, for we are but dust taken from the Earth.

God is forgiving and merciful.

This is true. He is love incarnate. Perhaps we should be thankful for His mercies? (I'm not saying you're not, but I could do to be thankful).

He may be disappointed in us when we sin, but I strongly believe that he is more than willing to wait for us.

I agree, wholeheartedly.

I'm slowly but surely becoming closer to God because I want to be.

All I can say here is good on you. You make me happy. It's nice to see Christian's who choose to follow God rather than follow Him because they are beaten around the head with a Bible. Thats the spirit!

I've always held myself up to a very strict moral code. One that I would never force onto another because I am not one to judge.

Exactly. Admittedly, I actually still struggle here. I find myself judging all the time when I get angry. I prayed earlier and have to remind myself to focus more on God and less on the internet. You are correct.

I follow it to the teeth. I beat myself up when I sin because I know I disappointed God.

I know that feeling. Whenever I've sinned and feel down, I just remind myself that God is love and love is God. As you mentioned, He is forgiving. We just need to *try* to remain faithful. Thats all. ^ ^

Yes, I'll admit that I have lied in my lifetime and I will probably do it again before I die. Why? Because I'm flawed.

I used to lie every now and again when I was little, but I haven't done so for a long time, now. My advice is don't beat yourself up too badly. God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.

However, for those that continually sin out there, they will be destroyed for loving their corrupted lives and not turning away from what is wrong. (this doesn't include you I'd imagine, but just wanted to add this anyway..)

Everyone is flawed.

How true. We are flawed because we are all born into Adamic sin.

By your logic only perfect people are true followers of God. But no one is perfect.

I know. I wasn't trying to imply I, or any other Christian's are perfect. A true follower is basically someone who trie's to live their lives according to His law, which you seem to be doing.

The point isn't to never sin. The point is to avoid it, but if you do lie (or whatever) to learn from your mistake and do your best to not make the same mistake twice.

Exactly. You hit the nail on the head. You've earned my respect, for what it's worth.

You should look deep inside yourself and if you can truthfully say you have never broken one of God's Commandments then you can throw the first stone at my head.

There have been many times I've broken His commandments, because as you explained, we are flawed. I'll leave the stone throwing to the Israelites.

But if you find a single time in your life you were not 100% loyal to God's word then I rest my case.

See above. I love you, Meg

I'm sorry for coming off harsh and/or judgemental.

 

[Silverback]

Not to mention, lying isn't even the 'simplist' of all sins. If I understand correctly, your thoughts must always be pure as a Christian. Which means thinking about having sex with someone you're not married to is just as sinful as actually having sex with them. This seems nearly impossible for anyone to get around unless your Mother Theresa.

I think what Christian's mean when they say such things is that, if you think about having sexual intercourse with another mans wife, and you cultivate a desire in your heart for that woman, then you have essentially sinned by lusting for another mans wife, which in itself is an unholy (ie: unclean) desire/thought/fantasy. Then of course you can literally sin, aswell.

Such lusts, fantasies & desires lead to corruption, which eventually leads to death. Although we die eventually anyway because we inherited Adamic sin.

We can regain perfection once again, but in order to do so, our spirits must go through procedures and be reborn.

1: Take in accurate knowledge of what happened to us, how we lost our natural perfection and how we can get it back. ie: Taking in the knowledge of God, his commandments and the history of how mankind fell into the hands of Satan, chronicled in the Bible.

2: Be baptized/be filled with the Holy Spirit, which symbolizes to God that we want to start over, and live His way.

and

3: Share the Bibles truth's with others who are willing to listen so that they can be saved, too. This is the continuation of Jesus' missionary work, that He and His Diciples preached.

Do not force this on anyone - As some Christian's seem to do. This is a personal choice for the believer to make.

I, myself have yet to be baptized. I begin my Bible study tomorrow.

 

[Meg]

snip

Seems to me we were saying largely the same thing but in different ways. Cheers!

One thing I do disagree with is that getting baptized at birth is not a true baptism. Sure, babies don't know what on earth is happening, but I still consider it a real Baptism and see no point in me getting another one because baby baptism cleans the soul of sin we are born with. Letting babies start off on a clean slate. Good enough for me.

I did go through Confirmation and became an adult in the eyes of the Catholic Church. I was really into that (except the wearing a dress part). I consider that an adult pledge to God type of thing.

But all of that comes down to different beliefs. I doubt God cares that much about when you get baptized so long as you try to live by His word. XD

 

[Silverback]

Seems to me we were saying largely the same thing but in different ways. Cheers!

Cheers!

One thing I do disagree with is that getting baptized at birth is not a true baptism. Sure, babies don't know what on earth is happening, but I still consider it a real Baptism and see no point in me getting another one because baby baptism cleans the soul of sin we are born with. Letting babies start off on a clean slate. Good enough for me.

I think, mainly the reason it wouldn't occur as a true baptism, is because God wants us to choose to serve Him, which of course, is a choice we cannot make when we are infants. So therefor it isn't really a genuine decision from us and a legitimate baptism. Getting baptized via immersion baptism can't hurt your chances, regardless... so whats to lose?

Either way, I respect your decision, and the fact that you are atleast trying to do what is right.

I did go through Confirmation and became an adult in the eyes of the Catholic Church. I was really into that (except the wearing a dress part). I consider that an adult pledge to God type of thing.

It's great that you are making decisions and taking steps to serve God. I'm happy for you.

But all of that comes down to different beliefs. I doubt God cares that much about when you get baptized so long as you try to live by His word. XD

I'm sure God cares. Remember what Job asked. "What is mortal Man, that you keep him in mind, and the son of man, that you take care of him?"

Baptism symbolizes you want to live for God. It imparts the Holy Spirit to you, and appears to be essential in order to be saved. This is why I yearn to undergo an immersion baptism.

But you are right, for our individual lives, it boils down to what we choose to believe, and aslong as we put effort into trying to live by His word, we should be safe from His coming wrath.

Peace.

 

[La Femme Fatale]

I think what Christian's mean when they say such things is that, if you think about having sexual intercourse with another mans wife, and you cultivate a desire in your heart for that woman, then you have essentially sinned by lusting for another mans wife, which in itself is an unholy (ie: unclean) desire/thought/fantasy. Then of course you can literally sin, aswell.

Such lusts, fantasies & desires lead to corruption, which eventually leads to death. Although we die eventually anyway because we inherited Adamic sin.

We can regain perfection once again, but in order to do so, our spirits must go through procedures and be reborn.

1: Take in accurate knowledge of what happened to us, how we lost our natural perfection and we we can get it back. ie: Taking in the knowledge of God, his commandments and the history of how mankind fell into the hands of Satan, chronicled in the Bible.

2: Be baptized/be filled with the Holy Spirit, which symbolizes to God that we want to start over, and live His way.

and

3: Share the Bibles truth's with others who are willing to listen so that they can be saved, too. This is the continuation of Jesus' missionary work, that He and His Diciples preached.

Oh, wow, I'm quite alright thanks. I tend to lean on the 'only the good die young' side of things when it comes to discussions like this.

 

[Silverback]

So... What does this mean? What are you trying to say?

If you think I'm trying to convert you, you're mistaken. Just providing the answer to your question.

 

[La Femme Fatale]

Not at all darling. It was more of a 'that's never how I'd wish to live my life' post. I guess when we start talking about achieving spiritual perfection by putting away our lust and being filled with the holy spirit... it's just a good time for me to leave 'cause I have nothing substantial to add.

 

[Silverback]

Not at all darling. It was more of a 'that's never how I'd wish to live my life' post. I guess when we start talking about achieving spiritual perfection by putting away our lust and being filled with the holy spirit... it's just a good time for me to leave 'cause I have nothing substantial to add.

Okey dokey.