Any Tomb Raider fans here?

[Jonipoon]

I would love to hear your opinions on this soon to be 25 year old franchise. While I've played far from every entry in the series, I've always held a deep fascination and admiration for the character of Lara Croft since I was a kid. I remember seeing my dad's friend play the original 1996 game, shocked by the incredible 3D graphics, exotic environments and Lara's impressive acrobatics. Some years later I watched the 2001 movie with Angelina Jolie, and my interest in this character spiked. She was like the combination of my other childhood heroes back then; the adventurous Indiana Jones, the classy and witty James Bond and the brutal Batman.

It wasn't until 2006, however, that I actually picked up my first Tomb Raider game with the release of Tomb Raider: Legend. Older fans may have their various gripes with this entry, but for me this was the greatest game in the world back then (at least for a few months). It was fun, easy and fast-paced, full of exotic locations and puzzles, and featured a classy and wise-cracking Lara Croft. I played it over and over again and just couldn't get enough. And yes, as a teenager back then I would lie if I didn't admire the sexy nature of Lara Croft. But I still held a deep respect for her way of life, after all she was a very confident mature woman whom lived by herself in this huge mansion. She didn't need a man, she could take care of herself. She travelled to exotic places all over the world, rode motorcycles and expensive yachts, went skydiving and battled sharks and jaguars, I mean what's not to like?

Eventually I ended up playing both the sequels, Anniversary (2007) and Underworld (2008), both of which I enjoyed, and I even tried my best at playing the PS3 ports for Tomb Raider 1996 and its sequel Tomb Raider II, but I'm embarrassed to admit that the controls were simply too strenous to master, so I never bothered finishing them. I did however immerse myself into the lore of Lara Croft around this time and watched longplays of older games, read a few comics, etc.

So of course it was only natural for me to pick up the reboot "Tomb Raider" that was released back in 2013, and I remember being very excited for this completely new take on Lara Croft. While it was very different from what I was used to in the LAU trilogy, it was nevertheless a great game with exciting gameplay, a rewarding skill system, and a very compelling story that made for a believable origin story. When the game ended it felt like this younger Lara was ready to take on the world and be the Tomb Raider she was destined to be. And then.... well, then the two sequels happpend.

I won't go on into too much detail why I dislike both the sequels "Rise of the Tomb Raider" and "Shadow of the Tomb Raider", because I'd like to hear your opinions first, but let's just say that I feel like this reboot trilogy has failed to accomplish anything significant, and by taking too much focus away from the core aspects of the series and the character, one is left wondering what was the point of all this? The reboot game from 2013 had a good thing going, but the two sequels failed to evolve into what was being set up. She never became the Tomb Raider she was destined to be.

 

[Hel]

Someone mentioned Tomb Raider, so... prepare for a looong essay.

In terms of video games, Tomb Raider was basically my first love. I'd had flings with other games before, such as Doom and everything related to Super Mario, but none of them had quite as much of an impact on me... Well, maybe Mario did, but then Lara came along and corrected some of the misconceptions about women in video games that I had thanks to him, and maybe that's a good starting point to talk about my relationship with Tomb Raider, because that was basically the starting point.

Just like Resident Evil, I became acquainted with Tomb Raider through my cousin, who always seemed to know every game that ever existed. The only thing I was interested in at first was the fact that he was controlling a woman. I didn't know anything about that woman as a person, why she was visiting the Great Wall of China, or what the story of the game was (not that the other games I played at the time were known for their deep stories anyway), but being used to seeing female characters as either damsels in distress for the male heroes to save, or evil witches that had to be fought, I found it quite fascinating.

It wasn't until a year or so later that I actually got to play that strange game myself, and learned about all the other aspects of the classic Tomb Raider era that I love until this day: Lara's mansion and her butler, the vaguely magic, but not over-the-top unrealistic myths and artefacts that she was chasing, and the beautiful environments from all over the planet that required a combination of shooting, exploring, and solving puzzles to proceed. While I liked some of the entries more than others (I can't touch IV: The Last Revelation because it drives me up the wall), it's safe to say that I became addicted to it rather quickly.

The first real crisis in my relationship with Lara Croft occurred with the release of Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness. It's no secret that I have a thing for angels, and for darkness, and even though I didn't know before the game came out that there were actual angels in it (I assumed the title was only a reference to Lara herself and her character development), it had me hooked from the day I first heard about it until... well, until I actually played it and discovered what an unfinished, bug-ridden mess it was. Up until that point, there had been a new TR game almost every year, but after AoD, Lara disappeared for three years. That, combined with my dislike for the latest entry and the fact that my computer at the time could barely handle any games that came out after 2003, made me lose sight of the franchise for a while.

Like many of the previous games, I only played Legend some time after it came out, and my love for Tomb Raider was reignited. Even though it felt rather shallow compared to the classic games and even the other two entries in the Legend-Anniversary-Underworld trilogy, it was fun at the time and a breath of fresh air that the franchise desperately needed. The thing I disliked the most about it was probably Lara herself, too chatty and arrogant for my taste, and it was weird how she suddenly had to rely on Zip and Alister in situations that Classic Lara would have been perfectly capable of handling herself.

Then the second reboot came, and... it's kind of a mixed bag. Story- and atmosphere-wise, Reboob 2013 is arguably my favourite game in the series, while Rise of the Tomb Raider has the best gameplay and replayability. It also didn't bother me at first that we went from the tough, self-confident, dual-pistol-wielding adult Lara to an inexperienced university graduate trying to survive her first big adventure with a bow and arrow, because the reboot was supposed to be about the character's origins, telling the story of how she started out the way she did and then became the person we know her as today, over the course of three games. But as Jonipoon said, the trilogy ultimately failed to deliver on that promise.

The final game, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, is a complete train wreck in my opinion, not on a technical level like Angel of Darkness was, but story-wise. A big element of the predecessors was Lara following in her father's footsteps in his search for immortality and clearing his name, but what does Paytitty have to do with any of that? Instead of building upon what had been established, Shadow completely throws it out of the window, instead introducing new elements to the story and acting like they've always been there, and turning Lara into the most unlikeable version of herself in the process. Apparently the developers thought that her killing as many people as possible in the most brutal ways and causing a few potential apocalypses along the way would make her a badass like the old Lara.

Talking about Tomb Raider has become complicated these days. Not quite as complicated as Resident Evil which, if it was a person, would have been diagnosed with dissociative identity disorder by now, but it's always best to specify which Tomb Raider, or which Lara Croft you're talking about. Pink may be the new black depending on who you ask, but bow and arrow isn't the new dual pistols, and this new Lara simply isn't Lara. I've even stopped calling her that, I'm actually calling her Hermione. (Don't ask...) If there is a new game on the horizon, I pray to Natla that they either reboot it again, return to one of the previous timelines, or set it so far in the future that Hermione has had enough time to grow up and turn into Lara off-screen, because the on-screen character development I've seen so far was... less than stellar, to say the least.

 

[Mr.R]

Ohh that's nice. I also have a long story with TR. When the 32bit generation started, I opted for a Sega Saturn and it introduced me to TR1. It was an amazing, mind blowing experience. There was nothing like TR back in the 16 bit to compare. It was such a new experience. Of course, with a Saturn I couldn't play the rest for a while, but I finished TR1 so many times that it's imprinted on my brain. Case in point, I bought all the PS1 games on the PS3 a few years ago and I blasted through TR1 like I never left, only missing a couple of secrets, but remembering most of the traps and what I had to do to proceed.

With the PSX I played the rest and my love for the series continued. I loved 2 (the best of the old games for me) and 3. Last Revelation was...something. It had some amazing scenarios and I love ancient Egypt, pyramids and tombs, but the "open world" nature of the game annoyed me, having to go back and forth between stages and load screens in such a "big" (for the time, at least) area kinda confused me, and I admit I finished by consulting a walkthrough every now and then. Chronicles was the proof that the series was getting stalled. The game was pretty meh and only the first level was enjoyable for me.

Then came the PS2 and...I know I finished Angel of Darkness...but I think it might had been too traumatic and my mind blocked my memories? Because I can't remember much. I finished once and never played again. I remember some bits in Paris rooftops but...not much. When Legends came I was ready for a change, all on hype by reading the magazines back then. It had more action than usual, but I loved! It had a nice story, some interesting side characters and a pretty good gameplay. Anniversary was even better. Everyone goes about saying RE Remake is the best way to do a Remake (I do have my reservations about that statement) but TR Anniversary was just up on my list, regarding remakes. It was the first TR, but bigger, with more stuff to explore, a better gameplay and a better story. I loved anniversay. Underworld was...meh again. Okay, I guess, but the continuation of the Legend story was not that satisfying. I first played on the PS2 and it felt like an incomplete game. When I bought the TR Trilogy on the PS3 and played the real Underworld it moved a few points up, but not by much, it was just okay.

Again, I was ready for the reboot. Playing the 2013 TR felt a little like playing the first one again, back in the Saturn. The game now had the much stable, tried and tested Uncharted combat and climbing, with a nice map to explore (big, but not too overwhelming), the story was very good, with some nice side characters. This game felt so amazing to me that even eclipsed The Last of Us (I played both in the same year). The only downside is that it felt a little too easy, even on the hardest difficulty. Even though I still rate TR2013 a 10\10.

Rise and Shadow...were a disappointment. Rise had good gameplay and a okay story, but I found the setting so boring. It didn't felt too "Indiana Jones" for me, except in the beginning in Syria and in the end. Shadow was...a mixed bag. The scenario was interesting again and I like Pre-Colombian civilizations, but the story was all over the place. So over the place that Lara felt like an extra in a lot of parts. Combat in Shadow was weirdly handled, and honestly I kind missed encounters with enemies, because you spend a lot of time just running and climbing on this game, just for in the next scene being thrown into a big blown full battle. The gameplay was still as good as the 2013 game and some of the stealth mechanics were nice, but most of the encounters with enemies were very few and far between. Also, starting with Rising, Lara slowly got on my nerves. She got progressively whiny. I don't mind her being single-minded and even selfish sometimes. Those are character flaws, but in some situations she actually comes out very whiny. Also, even though I liked Camila Luddington's perfomace in the first game, I think they got her (the dub direction) too stucked in the 2013 reboot. By Shadow, I was expecting her to be more like the old Lara, maybe a little more sarcastic, sounding more experienced, but by Shadow she's still whiny. Lara feels off for me, especially in Shadow.

I got curious though, since the creators said the next game will be the bridge between reboot Lara and classic Lara so...maybe we can get hopeful? I wonder if they'll recast Camila. If she stays, I hope they can direct her to do a different portrayal.

PS: Not many people know, but the GBA Tomb Raider game is pretty competent for a handheld and actually feels like playing the classic ones. Also, the isometric games (guardian of light and Temple of Osiris) are pretty good. Nothing fancy, but they're short, quick fun and worth if you find it cheap.

 

[Oblivion Knight]

I loved reading about your nostalgia trips of the Tomb Raider series, thank you for taking the time to write them in such detail

My first experience of Tomb Raider was the original game on the PlayStation. It took me a little while to get to grips with it, but once I did I was pretty hooked. I think I've only played through the full game once, possibly twice.. Even to this day, I still have fond memories of figuring out the majority of puzzles myself without the use of guides - although I remember being distinctly bemused that you could save your progress at any point with the PC version, whereas you had to find the blue crystals to save on the PlayStation.. Thankfully they did away with them for Tomb Raider II. I loved the fact that they threw a T-Rex in there, and managed to do so without it feeling completely out of place.

Next was Tomb Raider II, which of course introduced vehicles for the first time - and let you drive your first as early as the second level. I personally preferred the first game, but still thought that the second came pretty darn close. It certainly felt more polished and fluid. I didn't really enjoy the underwater level 40 Fathoms, and even thinking about it again fills me with a certain amount of dread. They largely improved on the original game, but I just didn't enjoy the storyline as much..

Then I fell out with the series. Tomb Raider III had changed things up a bit, all for the worse in my opinion. A lot of the time you couldn't see the items that you were picking up, the new 'sprint' mechanic, and the fact that you could choose which stage to tackle next after the initial levels.. I don't think I ever cleared a second stage, such was my distaste in comparison to the first two games - and because I'm slightly OCD and like to play games in order, never really played The Last Revelation or Chronicles.. Though from what I'm reading, I may not be missing too much. I tried The Angel of Darkness on the PS2 briefly, but hated it even more than Tomb Raider III and don't think I got very far with it at all.

So my next completion that followed Tomb Raider II was Tomb Raider: Legend on the Xbox 360. It was ok, although I just didn't fall in love with it. I quite enjoyed the action sequences, the QTEs, and the way that the game played.. It just still didn't feel like Tomb Raider. You could also tell that Crystal Dynamics had taken the character traits from the film and added them to the game - I didn't mind it too much, but in comparison with similar games that I'd played by now within the same genre it didn't really stand out enough. I've only briefly played Anniversary - I didn't like the way that the release was handled on the Xbox 360, with the Legend add-on version adding a mere 250G but also releasing a standalone version with a full 1000G. I've never played Underworld.

Moving on to the reboot then, and I've only recently played it in any great length. I did really quite enjoy what I played, but unfortunately such is my lack of spare time, reached a certain point in the game - only for me to forget where I am, what I've done, and what's happened so far.. Again with the slight OCD, I'll likely have to start over rather than continuing from that save file. For this reason, I've never played either of the reboot's sequels.

 

[Jonipoon]

Wow, I'm so happy to see all of your detailed replies, this thread really got off to a heartful start with lots of fond memories being shared!

It's interesting to see that all of us share so many opinions regarding the old and new games, as well as Lara's character, and that the common conclusion is that the reboot trilogy is a mixed bag. I's always nice to listen to the thoughts of long-time fans who've experienced the usual on/off relationship with a series.

@Hel , I can definitely see your point in regards to the addition of Zip and Alister in the LAU trilogy, and how they might make Lara look less capable on her travels. But I digress. I really enjoy the fun chit-chat over the radio and how it adds to the experience. In my mind they actually made Lara look even more badass, since she is essentially the boss for these two. I think Crystal Dynamics's intention with Zip and Alister was to make the game more cinematic, and have Lara be able to crack jokes during the levels without making her look crazy by talking to herself all the time. Besides, at the end of the day Lara still made all of the big decisions and conclusions. However, as much as I like Zip I do think that Alister could've been written out - he is a pretty useless character who does nothing but act surprised/cautious. Sometimes I feel like they only brought him in to accompany Zip, so that there wouldn't be any misconceptions about Zip and Lara being in a relationship or something.

@Mr.R , My gosh, I feel sorry for you having to play Underworld on the PS2 for the first time. That must've been painful.
I feel you hit the spot on Lara's terrible character arc in Rise/Shadow. The first time I played Rise and saw Lara get cast into the wilderness yet again and mumble the words "I can do this", I was like what the hell... Why is she peptalking herself the exact same way she did at the start of TR2013? At that point I knew my worst fears were true. The game looked incredible but it couldn't save the terrible plot with Trinity and Kitezh which felt uninspiring and forced. And her constant whining and anger started to get on my nerves. Like, I get it, you're ****ed off, but why does it feel like you're genuinely taking pleasure in murdering all these men? This trait continued well into Shadow.

Anyway, this year is the 25th anniversary of the series and while the devs are denying that they're working on a new title, I refuse to believe that they have nothing to surprise us with this coming October. It might just be a remastered version of a previous game, but it'd still be something at least. Regarding their tease about the next game bridging the old and reboot Lara, I can simply say that I fail to see how reboot Lara could become the woman we see raiding tombs in the classic games, because they're now like two completely different characters. If they de-canonize Rise and Shadow and work just with TR2013, I can see it working, but Rise and Shadow simply messed up. Big time. The fact that we still don't have her classic dual pistols by the end of Shadow speaks volumes in terms of missed opportunities and false expectations. Also, I feel disappointed knowing that we're not going to see Lara wearing her classic outfit for many, many years to come in a AAA game.

 

[Mr.R]

@Mr.R , My gosh, I feel sorry for you having to play Underworld on the PS2 for the first time. That must've been painful.


To be honest, it wasn't so bad. I mean, I didn't knew the PS3 full version of the game when I played on the PS2. Sure, it was inferior to Legend and Anniversary, but it wasn't unplayable or anything. Just really mediocre. Even though the Coastal Thailand level still impressed me, even on the PS2, with those gigantic statues and structures.

 

[TecmoZack]

So of course it was only natural for me to pick up the reboot "Tomb Raider" that was released back in 2013, and I remember being very excited for this completely new take on Lara Croft. While it was very different from what I was used to in the LAU trilogy, it was nevertheless a great game with exciting gameplay, a rewarding skill system, and a very compelling story that made for a believable origin story. When the game ended it felt like this younger Lara was ready to take on the world and be the Tomb Raider she was destined to be. And then.... well, then the two sequels happpend.

I'm currently playing this. Have 2 and 3 in my backlog. I enjoy it for what it is (which to me is pretty much a version of Uncharted).

I hear the new direction now this trilogy is finished is a return to the games roots. I'm about it.

I played and loved all the OG games on ps1

 

[justliketheplant]

I believe it was my sister's boyfriend that downloaded the demo for Tomb Raider onto the family computer when I was 10 and I was absolutely hooked. I played it nonstop. I think the end of the demo was when you triggered the fight with the bear at the pool, so I'd avoid it and explore, explore, explore. We lived in the boonies, and when my parents bought me the full version I just sat in the van on the hour-long drive home staring at the box, reading all the text and analyzing the pictures.

I wish I never discovered the cheat codes, lol. My sister's boyfriend showed me them because I was struggling, and they seemed great at the time, but I think they deprived me of some of the joy of having a safe struggle and it was the opposite of character building.

The environments were beautifully rendered and what I liked to do most was just putter about, looking at everything. It always felt like there COULD be more than you were seeing or finding, and that made it really exciting.

I loved Lara as a character. I felt frustrated to tears sometimes with how much she was sexualized by the men and boys around me. They always talked about her so degradingly, as if them finding her attractive made her less worthy of respect. Her backstory of being disowned by her family and striking out and making a name for herself really resonated with me. She was alone but she wasn't bitter about it. She was tough, she was living the life she wanted to lead, and she could take care of herself. Lara was a bit of a bright spot and a small promise of stability.

I played one through three, but could not bring myself to finish The Last Revelation when I learned she died at the end. I just put down the game and walked away. I tried to get through Angel of Darkness, but I think I got up to the point where you play as Kurtis and then dropped it for reasons I can't remember.

I played a bit of Legend, but don't remember much. I rented it from my local video store (remember those?), my jerk exboyfriend said something derogatory about the games, so I stopped playing. My husband bought me Anniversary while we were dating and I very much enjoyed it.

I did not enjoy the reboot of the character's backstory in the movie, that she was engaging in tomb raiding with not only her family's blessing, but following in her father's footsteps, and I think that's part of why I never made another go at playing Legend. I hated that it leaked into the games. I had a lot of family-related angst and trauma and having that independence and autonomy and fierceness taken away from her was gutting for me. She just wasn't a fighter anymore. She didn't escape from other people's suffocating ideas of who she should be and she never had to make it on her own.

I played the 2013 reboot and it was enjoyable. It felt more like an interactive movie to me than a game. There were some nice areas to explore and a bit of a challenge to it, but I didn't feel compelled to play the next game. I sort of wish they invented a new character instead of reinventing Lara again, but I still enjoyed going on the journey with her.

 

[RipvanX]

It was always hard for me to get into the classic Lara Croft games growing up, but the one I played the most was Tomb Raider III. I never finished it but I got to the Antarctica section where there were these mutants crawling around making disturbing grunting sounds that freaked me out as a kid. Then when I got to the temple sections, these death god alien things would shoot green magic at me and I would die. I basically ran out of ammo and health so I was forced to quit.

Fast forward to Tomb Raider 2013 and I finally got into the series more. The set pieces and environments were so immersive and more compelling to me than almost any Uncharted game (except for Among Thieves). The story was a bit wacky and over the top but it was entertaining. Rise was my favorite one so far and had a snowy environment as a focal point, which you don’t see too often in action adventure games. The DLC also added variety to an already 9/10 game. Shadow on the other hand felt like filler and the build up to ending the Trinity Boss was a huge let down. While the jungles were gorgeous and a nice throwback to classic Lara games, it all felt the same in the end. Add on the hundreds of boring generic side missions and you have a recipe for a mundane experience.

I want to revisit the classic Lara Croft games in the future and give them a 2nd chance. Oh and on a side note there is an RE2 mod made in the Tomb Raider Last Revelation level editor that is very cool, it’s only a playable demo atm but I hope they finish it.

 

[Oblivion Knight]

If you have the means to play them, the previously PC exclusive expansions of Tomb Raider (Unfinished Business) and Tomb Raider II (Golden Mask) have been ported to the original PlayStation after over 20 years.. I haven't had the chance to try them myself yet, but I'm definitely going to have to set a bit of time aside to do so.

I'll not post the link directly in case I'm breaking any rules in doing so, but search for the user b122251.

 

[Murderer Enshrined]

I know it's likely some of us have played some vintage Croft, so I'm not going to go into past details. I would rather start with Rise of the Tomb Raider.



She went from being a super hot badass, to prissy little school girl, trying to do good, while she may as well be one of the most infamous and most brutal female serial killers the world has ever known. Ok, not a bad start.



We all know that even the best stories are going to have holes in them. As they say, never let the truth get in the way of a good story, right? But I think Rise of the Tomb Raider really pushes the patience and tolerance of that. All the grumps that people have with Tomb Raider in this thread, I can handle those grumps. This is what I can't handle:



She ends up in the wilderness, somehow, ends up with a bow and some arrows, some soldiers show up. I can clearly tell that when they're firing at me, they've probably got full automatic assault rifles, pistols, and even, possibly, shotguns. And they're firing a lot, so, they probably have a lot of ammo. She stealth kills all of them. She kills at least quite a few. But she doesn't take any of the weapons or ammo they must've dropped when she killed them. She sticks with this bow. Really? Someone of her aptitude, knowledge and killing experience? She's just going to leave all of that behind, and fight a grizzly bear, with a bow and a couple of death caps? Frickin' mushrooms?


So, she goes into the Soviet Installation, still killing, and never taking any weapons or ammo. Finally ends up under this train yard, and comes across a dead body, and sees a chintzy little bull**** revolver, which, btw, has incredibly low power, especially compared to those other weapons she purposely left behind, and she takes it. And that's all you've got. Until you escape from the gulag, and somehow end up with an AK-47, because some arsehole was stupid enough to let you take it from him when you slammed a door on his arse, while ripping his gun away from him. So, what was all that other bullsh!t she left behind, that she could've taken at anytime? It doesn't wash. It doesn't whistle. It just ****es me off.


And what is the difference between Rise of the Tomb Raider and Shadow of the Tomb Raider? The deep snow is replaced by deep mud. And we're all up to our arses in it, too. Ain't nobody clean. It's all just a bunch of bullsh!t.


Btw, I have only four more trophies to go before I get platinum on Rise of the Tomb Raider (I'm at 94%), and I've long since gotten platinum on Shadow of the Tomb Raider. Yes, you read correctly. They're not really bad games. They've just got some holes in their stories.

 

[Murderer Enshrined]

A video cartoon I found:

 

[Jonipoon]

I never actually played Shadow of the Tomb Raider before, simply because I was left utterly disappointed after finishing Rise of the Tomb Raider, which was such a terrible, terrible game on so many levels. Rise of the Tomb Raider was basically a rehash of TR2013, just with a different setting and a much weaker plot.

But I actually started to play Shadow a few days ago, and it's actually not as bad as I thought it would be. I'm about 30% through and I'm pleasantly surprised to find that they've toned down the overreliance on action and shooting from Rise in favor of puzzle solving and exploration (which is really what the Tomb Raider series should be about). At the same time, the flaws of this Survival trilogy shines through the presentation since many of the mechanics and gameplay aspects are still kept from the previous two games. It becomes very obvious that the developers listened to complaints from long-time fans when designing Shadow, but they were still held back by core mechanics that needed to be kept in order for this new reboot trilogy to stay consistent.


Pros in Shadow so far:

I like that the environment is fully utilized again in a way that feels natural and clever, for example the way Lara has to climb walls and swing across trees actually makes sense and feels rewarding this time around. The same could not be said about Rise, where much of the environment felt forced and unnatural, and most of the time it felt like they put in a climbable ice wall just for the sake of adding suspense to the progression. It didn't feel natural, but in Shadow you actually feel like you can explore the environment in by trying different routes and find new secrets. The progression does not feel forced in any way, which is a big step up from Rise. In fact, I'd argue that Shadow does an even better job at utilizing the environment than TR2013. The tombs and the crypts feel like they belong in the environment, and not just "put there" for the sake of adding tombs and crypts like in Rise.

Lara already starts the game fully equipped with a machine gun and a pistol, which is what you should expect from her by now. Rise failed misarably by forcing the player to start from scratch yet again and find/learn how to use all of the weapons+ skills she used previously in TR2013. Shadow definitely deserves credit for at least trying to make her look like a more seasoned Tomb Raider this time around, and I'm glad that Lara isn't constantly whining and screaming like in Rise. Having Lara whine and scream like a little girl made sense in the first reboot (TR2013), but the biggest mistake of Rise was to bring that exact same type of Lara back for the sequel when she should really be used to this sh*t by now. I'm glad that Shadow chose a different path. Much of the skill system is improved upon as well, and rather than having Lara re-learn the same skills as before she's actually learning new skills that are directly linked to the new jungle environment. Good job, devs.


Cons in Shadow so far:

I still don't get why the devs are trying to make Jonah happen. It's not gonna happen. Jonah is the most boring and useless character to have come out in the entire series, and I don't understand why Lara keeps him around. He was just a god damn cook in TR2013, and prior to the Endurance expedition he and Lara didn't even know each other. Out of all the survivors from the first game (Jonah, Reyes and Sam), it made the least sense to have Jonah be the only one sticking around. For example, Sam and Lara were best friends since school and it felt strange to have them both completely lose contact with another, especially considering the emotional bond they shared near the end of TR2013. Even though Sam was a pretty useless damsel in distress, the devs behind Rise missed a great opportunity to have Sam grow as a character and join Lara's next adventure instead. Considering the fact that these new TR games are already highly political and made by a team of SJW's, it's mindboggling that they didn't actually think of this... I mean, Sam joining Lara would've been two female characters together in an adventure, which would've ticked more boxes. Even Reyes would've been a more interesting character to keep around for the sequels, since she hated Lara's guts in the first game which could make for some pretty funny situations. Besides, she was a police officer before which would make her somewhat skilled in gun combat. Jonah, on the other hand, lacks anything that would make for an interesting character growth. He likes Lara from the start of the first game, he likes her at the end of the game, and his personality and fondness of Lara stays the same for the next two games as well. BORING. He's not an archeologist, he's not interested in ancient cultures, he's not skilled in combat, and he's not as physically trained as Lara. So tell me again what keeps him around? Could it be that he and Lara are supposed to be romantically involved? Because nope, there is absolutely NOTHING in the entire trilogy that suggests that either of them likes the other one more than "just friends", at least not from Lara's side (which makes Jonah even more of a loser character). There is a super cringe scene in Shadow where Jonah and Lara sit around a camp fire and Jonah says "Everything I love about this world I have around me... including here" and then he looks at Lara, and Lara stays awkwardly silent but gives him a "Aww that's cute" face.

Long story short: Everytime Jonah pops up on screen I just think to myself "Please go away and let Lara do her job alone".

Besides Jonah, there are some minor things that annoy me like the dumb enemy AI (they are literaly blind idiots), as well as Lara being a white savior character even though the team behind this game is a bunch of SJW's who are against the idea of white male leads (but it's OK when it's a woman!) So yeah, the devs are a bunch of hypocrites but I guess that's what you should expect from the whole entertainment industry these days. Speaking of which, I also dislike that they changed Lara's parents from being equally terrible parents in the OG games, to having Lara's father being a cliché absent daddy and her mother being a cliché wonderful perfect mommy. Long story short, women = good, men = bad.

 

[Murderer Enshrined]

I like the fact that in Shadow, they actually let you start a new game with at least some of the weapons you acquired during the game, along with some of the upgrades you managed to get. They didn't do that in Rise.

But I still don't understand how Jonah went from being black in Rise to being Mexican in Shadow.

 

[Jonipoon]

I like the fact that in Shadow, they actually let you start a new game with at least some of the weapons you acquired during the game, along with some of the upgrades you managed to get. They didn't do that in Rise.

But I still don't understand how Jonah went from being black in Rise to being Mexican in Shadow.

Don't forget, he was of Polynesian/Islander descent in the first game, lol. It's almost as if the developers changed his race in each game to fit their narrative. Kind of like their way of saying "Oh yeah Lara is a white woman raiding tombs in this exotic country, but her best friend is a minority so it's fine".

 

[Murderer Enshrined]

Definitive Edition was fun to play. Sam, was awesome, even though she was barely there. She would've made an incredible teammate for Lara.

But, also, I always disliked the dev's use of light in the games. You use glow sticks in Rise, and you use a chest mounted flashlight in Shadow. But, sometimes, they don't turn on when you need them to. And you have no option or functionality to operate them with. In other words, you can't press a button on your controller and turn on the light when you need to.

In Definitive Edition, you actually have the option to take a torch, and light it against any fire you see. And then, once you find the flint stone, you can scratch light your torch whenever need be. Why couldn't they do that in Rise and Shadow?

 

[Murderer Enshrined]

I just wanted to focus on something right quick. Rise of the Tomb Raider and Shadow of the Tomb Raider are along the same story line, right? In the cut-scenes, you can clearly tell Lara is either eight or nine years old when her mother dies and her father kills himself. Yet, there is this conversation with Jacob in Rise of the Tomb Raider which doesn't jive with the story:

That doesn't sound like the type of conversation a nine year old girl has with her father.

Just saying.

 

[Jonipoon]

Yeah, when you look at all the three games together, much of Rise and its dialogue feels like it doesn't belong in the trilogy. It feels more like its own standalone game whereas TR2013 and Shadow fit together more consistently.

I don't even understand what's the point of the story in Rise. It didn't change Lara as a character from what she already was at the end of TR2013, and the story concluded with Lara not even learning the truth about her father's death. Weak for a game that supposedly wanted to be "emotionally deep".

I seriously hope that future Tomb Raider games can move on from "Lara misses her mommy and daddy" and have Lara actually discover secrets by herself and not simply follow her father's past clues.

 

[Murderer Enshrined]

I preferred back in the days when games and their characters weren't so neurotic

 

[Ikawaru]

Yeah, when you look at all the three games together, much of Rise and its dialogue feels like it doesn't belong in the trilogy.

That's usually (not always) the case for any #2 in a trilogy. It's always that weird one that's a bit different than the others.

I preferred back in the days when games and their characters weren't so neurotic

Me too. Sometimes all you need is a short biography in the game manual and some short and to the point dialogue in the game. The players imagination should take care of the rest.