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Feminists: Going too Far this Time?

the venomous grand design

REmake enthusiast
this is not a feminism issue, let's please not make it one.
this is an issue of A.) a group of people looking for some **** to complain about, and B.) a poorly written article using slander to get some ridiculous point across that feminism is a problem. feminism is not a problem, unless you think equality is a problem (in which case..). pseudo-extremist groups like the one mentioned in the article the problem, just as much as an article that uses disgusting, derogatory terms like "hosebeast" to describe women is.
 

KennedyKiller

Super Saiyan Member
Premium
this is not a feminism issue, let's please not make it one.
this is an issue of A.) a group of people looking for some **** to complain about, and B.) a poorly written article using slander to get some ridiculous point across that feminism is a problem. feminism is not a problem, unless you think equality is a problem (in which case..). pseudo-extremist groups like the one mentioned in the article the problem, just as much as an article that uses disgusting, derogatory terms like "hosebeast" to describe women is.
Lol. Thanks for proving my point. I saw a very heated Facebook discussion about it...And at the end of the day...People...ANY group of people are going to have their radicals, and make a whole group look bad...Much like the middle east...Facebook is full of uneducated morons...Here, I usually see a bit of intelligence in people, and hoped to get a great discussion going, rather than an overuse of name calling...That said...I think the article DOES have a point, despite it's tone...I find it much easier to get along with women in my life...I have many more female friends than male friends...And that's acceptable (at least where I am), even though I'm a married man...But all of my female friends have that ONE other friend that DOES agree with the extremists, and you could position the complete and total tomfoolery of the events in this article in every possible way, but they will side with it...People can just be so blind to logic...I just don't get why that is...To me, if you can position an argument in a completely infallible way, yet they won't get it..That concept DOESN'T make sense to me...Even when both women that are suspected to be the female in the photo were interviewed, and NEITHER claim to be sexually assaulted, how can one continue to say this is sexual assault? It baffles me...
 

DarkJackal

Well-Known Member
Ridiculous. I hate these people who get offended by something and think it's ok to change it. As if the world is here to cater to their views.

I certainly don't agree with being able to randomly kiss anyone you feel like, but this wasn't done with malicious or sexual intent. It was some dude so happy that he randomly kissed someone.
"I was so happy. I ran out in the street,” he told the Associated Press. “She saw me hollering and with a big smile on my face ... I just went right to her and kissed her."

He said he was swept up in the moment — August 14 was the day news of the Japanese surrender reached the U.S. — because he realized his older brother would soon be released from a Japanese prison camp.

“We never spoke a word,” he said of the nurse. “Afterward, I just went on the subway across the street and went to Brooklyn.”

To top it off its part of well known history. But because men hating feminists seeing what they want to see are offended, it should totally be changed.



Feminism isn't about equality. If it was about equality it wouldn't be called feminism and would be about equality for all people not just women.
 

the venomous grand design

REmake enthusiast
Feminism isn't about equality. If it was about equality it wouldn't be called feminism and would be about equality for all people not just women.
feminism is just as much about equality as the black power movement. it is a demographic that has been systematically downtrodden for an inconceivably long time, so they are coming together to try to put themselves on equal footing with their counterparts. as, at least here in the USA, they shouldn't even have to do in the first place, given the content of our constitution, but they have every right to do regardless.
you have no more place to decide the definition of feminism than i have to define the word apple. it has long been established. it is an equality movement. this is not an opinion. if you just don't like the word feminism, i suggest you try being a little less petty and look at the big picture.
"men hating feminist" is an oxymoron. the term you're looking for is "female supremacist," and i implore you do a little research before you go publicly blaming an extremely large community of people (of all genders, races, and backgrounds) for the actions of a small group of angry and misguided individuals.
 
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KennedyKiller

Super Saiyan Member
Premium
feminism is just as much about equality as the black power movement. it is a demographic that has been systematically downtrodden for an inconceivably long time, so they are coming together to try to put themselves on equal footing with their counterparts. as, at least here in the USA, they shouldn't even have to do in the first place, given the content of our constitution, but they have every right to do regardless.
you have no more place to decide the definition of feminism than i have to define the word apple. it has long been established. it is an equality movement. this is not an opinion. if you just don't like the word feminism, i suggest you try being a little less petty and look at the big picture.
"men hating feminist" is an oxymoron. the term you're looking for is "female supremacist," and i implore you do a little research before you go publicly blaming an extremely large community of people (of all genders, races, and backgrounds) for the actions of a small group of angry and misguided individuals.
To be fair...While the Feminist movement was much needed pretty up much through the 80's, in the vast majority of cases, they isn't much use for it in today's society in the U.S.A.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying their aren't still a FEW issues...But the vast majority of feminist issue have been cleared up, and we can move on to issues we can ACTUALLY fix...I mean, we have had a woman run for President...I'd say we've come just about as far as we can...Anything else is just a plea for attention so a political group can stay relevant...And yes, feminists ARE considered a political group...
 
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DarkJackal

Well-Known Member
feminism is just as much about equality as the black power movement. it is a demographic that has been systematically downtrodden for an inconceivably long time, so they are coming together to try to put themselves on equal footing with their counterparts. as, at least here in the USA, they shouldn't even have to do in the first place, given the content of our constitution, but they have every right to do regardless.
you have no more place to decide the definition of feminism than i have to define the word apple. it has long been established. it is an equality movement. this is not an opinion. if you just don't like the word feminism, i suggest you try being a little less petty and look at the big picture.
"men hating feminist" is an oxymoron. the term you're looking for is "female supremacist," and i implore you do a little research before you go publicly blaming an extremely large community of people (of all genders, races, and backgrounds) for the actions of a small group of angry and misguided individuals.
It might have started out that way, but it's become a toxic hate group. And yea, I guess in order to talk for an entire gender/race/group of people I would need to be a feminist, cus its ok for them lol.
Women are free to do/be anything they want to. They are responsible for their own lives. They arent being held back by anything more then men are. There are plenty of male inequalities now days as well, and plenty of others for plenty of types of people. The black power movement ended. Whats the modern feminism end goal? To achieve equality by focusing on the problems of a single gender.

There are even groups of women against feminism, that kinda speaks plenty about modern feminism lol.
 

the venomous grand design

REmake enthusiast
yes, there are probably groups of women against feminism. and there were also blacks in favor of slavery..does that make it acceptable?

if you guys really think equality struggle is over and minority groups and women have it just peachy here in the USA, i don't much care to entertain the debate or statistics needed to change your minds. you're entitled to your opinions just as much as i am, so let's agree to disagree. i don't come to RE forums to discuss politics anyway, i get my fill in school and work.

but if you must discuss things of this nature here in the future, please, please don't make baseless claims like, "in the vast majority of cases, there isn't much use for (feminism) in today's society in the U.S.A." if for no other reason, out of respect for people like myself that more or less make their life's work out of equality reform. again, this isn't a matter of opinion. that is simply not true. ask yourself; what situation could ever make equality useless? when exactly is one person inherently worth less than another?

on the other hand, i see firsthand the **** disenfranchised peoples have to deal with on a day to day basis, literally down to the statistics and numbers. if you have access to some info i don't, please lay it on me, because again, it'd make my day job far more effective.
 
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Springhosen

Kahnum of Outworld
Of course there aren't any issues about feminism in today's world, KK; women are supporting men now! Where have you been? The men stay home all day, demand payment to look after their children and mooch while the women go to work. [/personal experience rant]

The picture/statue in question has nothing to do with assault and anyone who thinks so is an idiot. The guy was happy to come back from the war alive and I don't exactly see that nurse complaining. That "sexual assault" is so well known, even today because it marked an era and it stood for something. It summed up how everyone felt after the war and, in truth, it was just a blip in time and now it's gone. I'm sure that nurse never thought twice about it over the years. Feminists don't have a problem with that spontaneous little moment, extremists do.

Now, as for Mockarena, I have a few choice words for not only his writing but his terminology. Words like "harpy" and "hosebeast" should never be used when describing anyone in a journalist column/reporter piece. Reporters are supposed to be impartial, getting the news out there without making a judgment. Men like that are reasons why rational feminists turn into extremists. He's part of the problem.
 

KennedyKiller

Super Saiyan Member
Premium
At the end of the day @the venomous grand design , we cannot have 100% equality. Anyone who thinks we can is completely moronic (Not saying you think that, just stating in general). There are enequalities facing men as well, just like @DarkJackal pointed out...For example, my dream career is to be a teacher...But not a high school or even late MIDDLE school teacher...I love kids...I love little kids, and just because they are so fun to be around...However, it would be next to impossible for me, a MAN to get a job as a first or second grade teacher, like I would love to have, because men are judged when alone around small children...This is an inequality that I must face, and that has even kept me from pursuing college, seeing as that's all I wanted to do...But I accept it. There will have to be some thing women will just have to accept as well...There will NEVER be a 100% equality...That is an impossibility. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for equality. But I'm all for reality as well...

Also, as for your Statistics, "There are three kinds of lies, Lies, Damned Lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain...
 
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wanderer

battle master
grand design pretty much summed up my thoughts.

this is not a feminist problem. its extremists. feminism is about equality, anything that sounds like nitpicking just so they can have some small form of REVENGE is not feminism. NOT everyone that calls themselves feminists are FEMINISTS. lately i have seen a lot of these extremist type of thinking move around disguised as feminists. feminism is not about REVENGE.
 

the venomous grand design

REmake enthusiast
Also, as for your Statistics, "There are three kinds of lies, Lies, Damned Lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain...
read: "i cannot bring forth a single fact to reinforce my assertion that women are worth less than men and that the movement toward equality is useless, so instead i provide an extremely vague quote of questionable relevance."

and again, PLEASE. QUIT. MAKING. ****. UP.
not only is employment in elementary and middle schools in the USA pretty gender balanced, here's a very recent graph (although these are technically statistics, not sure if you'll buy it) expressing the pay gap between men and women in various occupations. elementary and middle school teachers are displayed on the fourth bar from the top, plain as day.
20120421_WOC047.png


if you don't believe anything i've said here, feel free to do your own research (i could even give you a hand as it is my actual job to do such things). i promise you'll be hard pressed to find any information from a reputable source that conflicts with this graph. i am so done with this stupid ass debate. ignore the facts if you want but don't go spewing your delusions just to make yourself seem systematically oppressed. it's not fair to anyone that has to put up with this reality every waking moment.
 
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KennedyKiller

Super Saiyan Member
Premium
read: "i cannot bring forth a single fact to reinforce my assertion that women are worth less than men and that the movement toward equality is useless, so instead i provide an extremely vague quote of questionable relevance."

and again, PLEASE. QUIT. MAKING. ****. UP.
not only is employment in elementary and middle schools in the USA pretty gender balanced, here's a very recent graph (although these are technically statistics, not sure if you'll buy it) expressing the pay gap between men and women in various occupations. elementary and middle school teachers are displayed on the fourth bar from the top, plain as day.
20120421_WOC047.png


if you don't believe anything i've said here, feel free to do your own research (i could even give you a hand as it is my actual job to do such things). i promise you'll be hard pressed to find any information from a reputable source that conflicts with this graph. i am so done with this stupid ass debate. ignore the facts if you want but don't go spewing your delusions just to make yourself seem systematically oppressed. it's not fair to anyone that has to put up with this reality every waking moment.
Note, I SPECIFIED elementary and stated that I understood men can get hired for Middle School. Show me a ratio of of male elementary school teachers to female elementary school teachers, and maybe then I can find your points valid...But I can't understand yours, until you understand mine. That said, since you're such a fan of statistics, STATISTICALLY speaking, women who have phone sales jobs will sell more than men. And, seeing as most phone sales jobs are commission based, that would mean statistically women make more in call center positions than men...

As for my information on elementary school teachers...I went to three different elementary schools growing up. Not a SINGLE one had a SINGLE male teacher...So my statistics are 100% of schools I have attended have had all female teaching staff 100% of the time. In fact, there were no male SUBSTITUTE teachers until middle school...Let alone full time staff members...

grand design pretty much summed up my thoughts.

this is not a feminist problem. its extremists. feminism is about equality, anything that sounds like nitpicking just so they can have some small form of REVENGE is not feminism. NOT everyone that calls themselves feminists are FEMINISTS. lately i have seen a lot of these extremist type of thinking move around disguised as feminists. feminism is not about REVENGE.
Not idealy, no...However, Communism is not about control..In THEORY...However, in practical application that is simply impossible. Feminism was a great movement at the time...But at this point in our society, it is truly not very different than the practical application of communism, vs theoretical communism.
 

wanderer

battle master
great you get the difference of application and ideal concept. unfortunately your understanding only stops there, you do not try to make the logical conclusion. an idea does not become bad just because somebody who says they use it screw it up. this goes for communism and feminism. not every person calling themselves feminists ARE feminists, some are joining it because personal desire for revenge, with no concern for what the ideal wants to accomplish (equality), others join because it is 'trendy', the list goes on.

Marx thought up communism when he saw his environment in england. people working their asses off, getting abused by the employers, for complete garbage income. he was seeing poverty rampant in his time, fixing poverty would be a pretty big motivation in communism, as well as changing the system that made such a poor situation full of oppression possible in society. the USSR's application still managed to fix poverty, but still pretty sure communism was not truly applied by the USSR. saying communism does not work simply cannot be believed because true communism HAS NOT BEEN applied and tested yet.

not every person that identifies themselves as christian/muslim/bhuddhist/hindu is such and such. they may very well just be born into a family that follows it but themselves don't really care to follow/live up to the code. very much like not every person that calls themselves vegetarian are vegetarian, they may very well just be calling themselves vegetarian for a few months while they are trying to lose 50 kg, completely indifferent to the concept of vegetarianism, where life is precious.

i am not going to continue this pointless debate you have. someone that think using a small minority of bad examples that do not live up to their words, ideals, and code justifies labeling the large majority as bad as the poor examples, should really be CATCHING UP with the rest of intelligent life. that articles' author is trying to paint feminism as a horrible thing, completely ignoring their own sexist thinking, is a problem, and that the subject in there, the 'feminists' in the article cannot really be representative of all feminism.
 

MissDomino

Well-Known Member
Premium
Feminism is a women's rights movement, not just about some petty equality issues or female supremacy.

The problem isn't feminism. The problem is people these days aren't happy with what we have.
If this statue, an inanimate object, is the biggest "problem" these so called feminists face today, they should be grateful. Same goes for anyone that gets into a huff and puff over these so called feminists, like the person that wrote the article.
 

La Femme Fatale

The Queen
Moderator
I'll provide a more thoughtful response once I have some time to, but I always find it fascinating how it's nearly always men that protest feminism. And those half-witted, entitled 'Women Against Feminism' folk don't count; I spent some time reading that hashtag several months ago... most of the active members of that community are men. Surprise surprise.

Is the statue sexist? No. I don't believe this is a real issue. This is one or two people getting their panties in a wad over nothing - as people, regardless of political affiliation, often do - and some sorry excuse for a 'journalist' is trying to make a mountain from a molehill.
 

ArabPikachu

Well-Known Member
I don't really care about that statue but it's irrational to label such a statue as "sexual assault"

Feminists: Going too Far this Time?


I hate feminism but if I want to explain such hatred, there's better places for me to do so
 
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