The Supreme Court upholds the Affordable Healthcare Act

[JMG29]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/28/politics/supreme-court-health-ruling/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Congratulations to the Obama administration; at last, the American people get to stick it to greedy health insurance companies by... forcing everyone else to buy their products!

...on a more serious note, isn't it depressing that American Democracy has come to a point where, even after all the anti-ObamaCare fury from the Tea Party and the Republicans, their presidential candidate pretty much invented it? That's pathetic. People who pretend that "if you just vote, your voice will be heard!" have been proven dead wrong.

Welp. Since Ron Paul's presidential campaign isn't going anywhere, and since the next best thing is running in the third-party death trap, I guess we have to fall back on good ol' Jeffersonian state-nullification!

 

[Storyofmylife]

I'm totally for Obama-care, but I overheard my mother on the phone with my grandmother earlier and my grandma is thinking it will make the country bankrupt (saying some states won't be able to afford it, so they'll sue the government) she also thinks people will be more willing to euthanize old people... *facepalm* Why does this even cross ANYONE'S mind? That's just ridiculous.

I'm pretty positive this will HELP the country, not hurt it. Plus it helps people my age as far as insurance goes, ensuring your parents will still pay for your insurance until we reach the age of 26. Any 'Republican' healthcare plan would have you paying for your own insurance by 18. I'm sorry but that doesn't sit well with me having a freshman in college pay for their own insurance. I think 26 is the proper age to begin doing those things, you'll more than likely have a job of your own by then and be ABLE to pay for your own.

 

[Jay]

This will ease a lot of people hearts and minds.

 

[JMG29]

Vijay Boyapati explains how the government made the U.S. healthcare system suck.
Why the Swedish system is no better. [1] [2]

Here's an idea; the Tenth Amendment allows states to devise their own healthcare plan. Romney is actually right about this; the system of Federalism allows states to experiment with what works for the people in that state.
So when, say, the plan of a Romney governed Massachusetts fails... and it did... and some of the people who worked on it helped create Obama's healthcare act... the rest of the country doesn't have to suffer from it. That's the great thing about state's rights!

I'm hoping this all goes down the way REAL ID did.

 

[JujuLodestar]

Trust the goverment it gets you no where If you want to survive you got to do it yourself
That's just life pal sorry

 

[JMG29]

It's funny. I've had Thomas E. Woods Jr's "Nullification" in my possession for a while now, but I just so happened to have started reading it... yesterday, without really connecting the dots until right now.
What an appropriate coincidence.

Edit:

 

[Hoady]

The reason i think politics is bollocks is because shouldn't health be one of the primary foundations that constitute society? I mean why should we have to deal with this crap to begin with? You know the more sick people there are, the better the economy.

Anyway,good victory. I don't understand the whole care plan too well, simply because its a bit jargony for me.

 

[JMG29]

The reason i think politics is bollocks is because shouldn't health be one of the primary foundations that constitute society?

The problem is, who should provide it?

I think the private sector does the best job with it, and that most of the problems we have today stem from government interference with the system (as explained in the article I previously linked to.)

Anyway,good victory. I don't understand the whole care plan too well, simply because its a bit jargony for me.

That's okay. The same could be said for the congressmen who voted for the bill, since no one could read it until it passed. :/
Well, did you know that the bill forces people to buy private health insurance? Even if they can't afford it? And that the Supreme Court now rules that it is a tax on lower-income Americans (something the president promised that he would not do)?

 

[APV]

Im curious about this, the amount of tax you Americans pay could fund a decent Free National Healthcare System to rival that of the NHS in the UK, Australia and Canada. I mean yes tthe Government may need to raise taxes a little bit but why fund a massive military (Whuch rarely gets used to its fullest) when American citizens are struggling to pay their healthcare insurance and/or bills. I hope this 'Obama-Care' as it was referred to will put you all on the first step to a good healthcare system!

 

[JMG29]

Candidate Obama >>>>> President Obama

I mean yes tthe Government may need to raise taxes a little bit but why fund a massive military (Whuch rarely gets used to its fullest) when American citizens are struggling to pay their healthcare insurance and/or bills.

Even with military spending gone (which it should be), using the (borrowed/printed) money instead on a national healthcare service wouldn't slow the increase in the deficit. Not that this matters since Obama seems to be perfectly fine with being both a warmonger and a corporate whore for the healthcare industry.

Raising taxes during a recession would be horrible. Right now, several months worth of the average American's income goes to the government. In those months, he/she is essentially working for free, as a government slave.
"hurr durr but roads and police"

 

[APV]

Let me ask you this...If for talking sakes the Obama administration lost power in 2012 to the republicans. Would America be worse or better off?

 

[Meg]

I think it's funny that some people want the benefits of Obamacare, but want it to be free. That's basically Rommney's argument. How on earth something like this is supposed to be free just baffles me.

Well, I'm happy the thing passed. A lot of people, including people I love, are gonna benefit from this. Meg is happy.

 

[APV]

Im sorry but the Obama Administration should sort out the problems on Home Soil. Granted cut backs are inevitable in times like these but the US Military doesnt need the over powered Navy they have (The only Nation that could pose a Threat is the UK, In 2020 when both Queen Elizabeth Type Carriers come into service but i doubt we would go to war). So the $1/2 Trillion a year Defence budget is unnecessary, They should also merge the police forces (state and local) to save money. Money that can be better used for Growth and the Healthcare system. I mean its likely that when the Republicans get into power they will have a major reboot of the current system which may result in it disappearing altogether. Politics is messed up!

 

[JMG29]

Let me ask you this...If for talking sakes the Obama administration lost power in 2012 to the republicans. Would America be worse or better off?

I never said the country would be better if the Republicans win.

I actually hope, if Gary Johnson can't be a third-party underdog, Obama wins in November. It's the only way Republicans can finally get their act together and embrace true small-government principles, so that when 2016 rolls around, they won't nominate a joke like Mitt Romney, and instead have someone more competent (like Rand Paul.)

Im sorry but the Obama Administration should sort out the problems on Home Soil.

Are you seriously explaining stuff that I am already fully aware of to make a point that I already said I agree with? I called the president a warmonger in this thread and got into a hissy fit with a guy in another thread because he was all "AMURICA F*K YEAH WERE AWESOME HOORAY FOR BOMBING RUNS ITS FOR THEIR OWN GOOD."

I think it's funny that some people want the benefits of Obamacare, but want it to be free. That's basically Rommney's argument. How on earth something like this is supposed to be free just baffles me.

I think that's actually the point that critics of Obamacare are saying. Nothing is free. Whenever the government spends money, it has to get it from somewhere else. Sometimes by taking funds out of the private sector (through taxation, which many are opposed to), sometimes by devaluing the savings of individuals (through printing money, which the government has a sole monopoly of), or through debt (which we have way more than enough of.)

I really don't see how forcing people who can't afford health insurance to buy health insurance (or tax them more) is good for the poor. Massachusetts already proved that the system is a failure (as Candidate Obama explained in the video I linked to earlier.) Applying it across the nation won't make it any better.

 

[APV]

^ Bud i was just moaning in General not about what you said, Its a topic i feel passionate about since America basically runs the world (economically) and i invest so when my shares lose value because of Obamas administration ill just moan about anything even if ive already said it LOL

(P.S The Republican Question was just a General Question to everyone in this thread )

 

[Sonnentreppe]

I don't think it matters much who is in office, what party he's from, etc. I think what happens, happens on a spiritual level and a historical one. Universal health care is inevitable, gay marriage is inevitable, etc. Even if the presidents from then 'til whenever were die-hard conservatives, I think the issues would have risen to the surface eventually. I mean, so many other major nations already have universal health care, and ideology means little in the end.

I saw/read a cartoon on FB the other day where a man and a woman are talking about health care. The woman asks the guy which part the man dislikes about Obamacare, and after agreeing with all the woman's points, the man says, "I hate the worst part of all--the Obama part!" This cartoon is so accurate, I think; everyone seems so blindly political about this on both sides.

I've taken my share of poli sci courses, and I do think it would have happened, either way--now or later! Of course, the "losing" side is going to go against it because they want the disenfranchised voters. That's all American politics is about... wins and losses. Universal health care doesn't affect most people anyway, especially not negatively, though insurance companies as they have been allowed to conduct business have. Saw VI comes to mind.

 

[Hoady]

The problem is, who should provide it?

The same people going to blow up other people to pieces in the name of freedom,democracy,god,leaders or a piece of flag. While i might sound extreme, the only thing i see in war is the seperation of nations. If you educated soldiers to become problem solvers,to bridge the differences between nations,to help others and not turn them into master serial killers then i assure you, there would be a free over abundance of health care. Don't get me wrong, i truly have the highest regard for the soldiers for doing what they do. I just disagree with the wars themselves and how they are conducted or come to be.

I think the private sector does the best job with it, and that most of the problems we have today stem from government interference with the system (as explained in the article I previously linked to.)
That's okay. The same could be said for the congressmen who voted for the bill, since no one could read it until it passed. :/

Wow thats something lol. Make it as long and confusing as possible so no one reads it i guess.

Well, did you know that the bill forces people to buy private health insurance? Even if they can't afford it? And that the Supreme Court now rules that it is a tax on lower-income Americans (something the president promised that he would not do)?

That is pretty messed up. I guess politicians promise alot of things, but never follow through.Its been a what.. ongoing 2000 year pattern?

 

[JMG29]

The same people going to blow up other people to pieces in the name of freedom,democracy,god,leaders or a piece of flag.

That sounds like a terrible. It's like trusting your life to the mafia.

While i might sound extreme, the only thing i see in war is the seperation of nations. If you educated soldiers to become problem solvers,to bridge the differences between nations,to help others and not turn them into master serial killers then i assure you, there would be a free over abundance of health care. Don't get me wrong, i truly have the highest regard for the soldiers for doing what they do. I just disagree with the wars themselves and how they are conducted or come to be.

Okay now I'm confused. When did I ever say I support the US' foreign policy? I'm all for cutting military spending, but I'd also like to get rid of that deficit some time in the future, so transferring the money from the military to some government program won't solve anything (but at least foreigners won't hate us for our "freedom"/bombing their families and friends.)

Waitwaitwait, I think I know the problem now;
Libertarians/Classical Liberals =/= Republicans

Wow thats something lol. Make it as long and confusing as possible so no one reads it i guess.

Democracy at work!

That is pretty messed up. I guess politicians promise alot of things, but never follow through.Its been a what.. ongoing 2000 year pattern?

Which makes me wonder why people still act like American government is any better, to the point where something as vital as health insurance can be trusted by them.