America... What happened to you?

[Romero]

I always used to look up at the United States, I loved that country like I love my own. I use the past tense and it is a reason for that. I am a little heartbroken, figuratively speaking. I have been growing skeptical to the US' role as "world police" over the last few years, unjustified wars are to blame for it. But the biggest reasons are the scandal uncovered by whistleblower Edward Snowden, and how the US responded to it, and now recently how the US have spied on their allies.

Now I look down on the United States, they are morally deceased to my eyes and to the eyes of large (most?) parts of Europe. If you do not watch international news: Europe is outraged and especially the EU is fuming over the spying scandal. I feel a bit like when Leon in RE4 looked down at Krauser after their final encounter. My thoughts are almost exactly like Leon's:

America... What happened to you?
You used to be the good guys...​

Yes, what happened? 9-11 happened but that is no reason for not being the "good guys" anymore, but I am not sure to what extent this is being used as excuse. One bad president can do much wrong in just one term. Just think how much wrong two bad presidents and their cabinets can do during four terms.
They are tapping phones and spying on their allies. Their friends. NSA's primary objective is to prevent terrorism? Just what sort of terror plans do they expect to reveal by tapping the phones of Chancellor Angela Merkel and members of the European Parliament?

According to a source in the White House, Barack Obama did not trust Merkel and had said something like "Who is that lady [...] gather what information you can about her". Could he just not talk with her and build relations like normal state leaders do? He could also have found out very much about her from official records. If you doubt that the phone tapping really happened: A spokesperson for the White House declared on TV that they do not and will not tap Merkel's phone. This is diplomatic language for confirming that they actually did tap Merkel's phone.

Der Spiegel (German newspaper) reports that the phone tapping of Merkel went on for about ten years. And before that, the Bush administration tapped Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's phone. It started under George Bush Jr. but Obama is very much aware of what is going on. Bush Jr. delegated very much power to the people around him and he did not personally have to approve of everything, in that way Bush Jr. was the opposite of Bill Clinton. Obama is somewhere in the middle, more personally involved than Bush, though not as much as Clinton. At any rate, every president begins the day at office with a briefing.

Who needs enemies when they got friends like USA? Well they are not bombing their allies, but their spying reminds about cold war. And it is not just political leaders they are spying on, normal law-abiding civilians are victims of mass-surveillance on a grand scale.

I have not forgotten what the US have done in the past, for example liberating Europe and being the good stabilizing force during the Cold War. But everyone must be judged for what they are not what they have been, and unfortunately the United States have changed for the worse. I am not sure why the name "Umbrella" came to mind right now.

Maybe the US changed because they have too much power, and I mean the White House and all the various government agencies, I think it is 16 of them. Agencies such as NSA have way too much power. Power corrupts. Very few - if any - good guys stays good forever if they get too much power. But they will continue to believe that they are still the "good guys" and will find or make up all necessary reasons for their existence and increasing budget.

My dear American friends, I still love you as much as I did before. It is your government that are the traitors. Some of you are probably pretty embarrassed by your government's actions, I know I would be.

It is extremely ironic that the US wants to prosecute Edward Snowden for spying. Who is the big spy here? Snowden is a hero, said government, including President Obama, looks like the real criminals, at least from a moral point of view. But they are seemingly above the law, above morals, and above reason, so who is going to prosecute them? Nobody of course. But luckily the American government and authorities are pretty good at defecating in their own nest so it is fun (in a tragicomic way) to observe from the outside. I just hope that the next president will do some much needed house-cleaning... or perhaps even reconstruction. After all I want to love USA. I still can not forget all the good sides of it, and it is also full of lovable citizens. But a political big CHANGE is overdue.


Please share your thoughts.

 

[JujuLodestar]

I believe you just answered it a little in.

America has too much power not only that if you take the elections they barely stated what could THEY can do. Nope just "This guy would cause this! vote for me or you're an animal" They also adopted these big AF egos. Why? not sure I used to love it too but now...Nope freaking movie stars get more money than Soldiers, sure sometimes is not just but do movies stars have the risk of dying? NOPE

Also I can recall this kinda BS started literally after our first President died (Imo he was the best)
Hell I'm not sure WHY they say they do it for this reason I bet you those terms of service give them the right to spy on us. Probably added that since NOBODY reads it.

After we can't through the Jamaican look-a-like and The Moody whitey I think it might be better.

Not certain that's just hope on my side

 

[Meg]

The American government is an embarrassment. Between the House Republicans shut down the government because they couldn't get their way and this spying scandal, it's a wonder the rest of the world doesn't cut America off completely. My government is filled with power hungry, crazy people, it's ridiculous.

 

[KennedyKiller]

I love my country. I truly do. But I feel we are living in a shadow of our former glory. We have forgotten what it truly means to be an American. The "American Dream" has been lost to us. The American dream was, you work for what you get, and you love your life and family that you worked so hard for. Whether you're middle class, upper middle class, or high class, you WORKED for it, and didn't sit around doing nothing waiting for government handouts.

I think America can be fixed. I think it's a long road to do so, but it CAN happen. Democrats and Republicans need to see eye to eye. We can't continue thriving based on products important from other countries. We cannot have free healthcare, free cell phones...This is breaking our bank giving things out for FREE to people who do not deserve it. Americans have forgotten how to WORK, and now think we deserve everything just for LIVING. This is Bullsh*t. No one gets a free ride.

As for wars go. I understand the necessity for them right now. That's one of the only things keeping our economy afloat, just like it does for other countries. But spying on our allies just isn't right. The saying "All's Fair in Love and War," isn't justified in this case. But again, things can be fixed. I love my country.

 

[Pancham Cutie]

I know exactly what you mean Romero. I'm quite fed up with this country and if it does not improve within a few years then at first chance I get I am packing my bags and I'm immigrating to another country (And I already can't decide which one to go to between 2 countries.) and won't come back unless the country that I immigrate to starts becoming a 2nd U.S., then I'll immigrate again. The U.S. Government can be summed entirely with one word - terrorists, they are pretty much "Oh we'll end a war that has already taken innocent lives by killing more innocent people. Oh we don't like this law, we'll shut down the government which will force some people out of their homes, cut payment on some people who work, and the best part is that it'll kill some of us. Oh our allies trust us, well we don't trust them so we're going to spy on them and we'll just launch a missile at them for no reason when we feel like they are bad.", disgusting, just pure disgusting is what the U.S. Government is.

I'll stop right here because I'll go on forever on why I hate this country.

 

[Springhosen]

I could go on forever about this or that, where it started and where it'll probably end, or the reasons why it's happening in the first place but I won't; America has more power than they can handle, that's what happened. Power corrupts and it has corrupted our country.

End of story.

If you're looking for some long, drawn out, philosophical answer then you'll be sorely disappointed.

The world's most complicated questions have such simple answers, don't they?

 

[Romero]

Also I can recall this kinda BS started literally after our first President died (Imo he was the best)

Crap started just after George Washington died? That must be a long time ago...

The "American Dream" has been lost to us.

Or maybe it is quite the opposite? The dream is not lost, you are actually dreaming it? :wink:

Democrats and Republicans need to see eye to eye.

I believe that's right, and the problem now seems to be that the Republicans didn't get "to see eye to eye" right, they were instead thinking an eye for an eye... They lost the health-care reform and then took a whole nation as hostage. I don't know all the details of it, but I believe "Obama-care" is a needed reform. But a problem is its high cost, I think $300 a month is crazy expensive.

We cannot have free healthcare, free cell phones...This is breaking our bank giving things out for FREE to people who do not deserve it. Americans have forgotten how to WORK, and now think we deserve everything just for LIVING. This is Bullsh*t. No one gets a free ride.

Who is getting free health-care and phones? Your old health care system is expensive and Obama-care is super expensive. They just had a report on TV news, they interviewed ordinary people in Texas. The old insurance typically costs around $130 a month and the new insurance will (as it looks now) cost around $300.

As for wars go. I understand the necessity for them right now. That's one of the only things keeping our economy afloat, just like it does for other countries.

Wars are big business for the war industry and employs a great number of people, but who's paying for it? Unless your armies are looting other countries it is the American people who pays for it all. Both in cash and in blood.

I used to support the last Iraq war. I was duped and I began to realize it some years ago. Iraq would have been a better place today if Saddam Hussein still ruled. He would also have been a counter-weight to Iran who is a real threat. You see, removing evil from one place is not necessarily a good idea. Not if there is another evil next to that place, then you might have to either remove both of them or keep both in place.
When you go out and police the world you are bound to disrupt the balance of power somewhere and do mistakes. Good is better than Evil, but Balance is often better than both of the forces. I didn't realize this before I had grew up lol, actually I thought it out and made it a thesis just four minutes ago.

The war against Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan is justified, but that war has not been managed particularly well. It's also interesting to note that some of the elements the US are now fighting against in Afghanistan was secretly equipped and trained by CIA some 30 years ago. It was not wrong to help Afghans oppose the Soviet occupation, but it shows that shady operations can be a double-edged sword.

 

[Jay]

Edward Snowden in my eyes did the right thing. I'd rather live knowing the horrible truth then to go on ignorant of what's happening in my own country. We stopped being the "Land of the Free" a long time ago.

 

[Springhosen]

Crap started just after George Washington died? That must be a long time ago...

It was a long time ago and, technically, trouble started before then. (Like when the next president took over and political parties were formed; against the very direct advice of George Washington might I add.)

 

[Mr Sunshine]

Romero, I'm surprised that you've come to this conclusion just now. The opinion that the US government is acting like a terrorist has been popular outside of the US for as long as I can remember.

I don't think anything changed over the years. Naturally, "The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must". Since there isn't any opposition, the US can do what they want without any consequences.
The only difference between the US and the EU governments is that while the US are capable of spying to a greater extenct, EU doesn't have the means to do so.

History just repeats itself every single time.

 

[Meg]

Romero, I'm surprised that you've come to this conclusion just now. The opinion that the US government is acting like a terrorist has been popular outside of the US for as long as I can remember.

I don't think anything changed over the years. Naturally, "The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must". Since there isn't any opposition, the US can do what they want without any consequences.
The only difference between the US and the EU governments is that while the US are capable of spying to a greater extenct, EU doesn't have the means to do so.

History just repeats itself every single time.

And that's the problem with international politics. While each country has its own judicial system to handle crap like this that happens inside one country, there isn't really any power to punish one country from doing it to another.

 

[KennedyKiller]

Crap started just after George Washington died? That must be a long time ago...




Or maybe it is quite the opposite? The dream is not lost, you are actually dreaming it? :wink:


I believe that's right, and the problem now seems to be that the Republicans didn't get "to see eye to eye" right, they were instead thinking an eye for an eye... They lost the health-care reform and then took a whole nation as hostage. I don't know all the details of it, but I believe "Obama-care" is a needed reform. But a problem is its high cost, I think $300 a month is crazy expensive.

I "Idea" behind Obama-Care is that it will give free or inexpensive healthcare to those who didn't have the income to afford it before, or worked a job that didn't offer it. The problem is, they're making health insurance MANDATORY. That is a COMPLETE violation of our constitutional rights. People in America are up in arms about it. I'll put it this way, if Obama-Care was so amazing, then it would be an option, not a law. The people don't want it. We don't want our children to be micro-chipped. The Republicans were actually right to do what they did. And before people judge me, jumping to the conclusion that I'm Republican so of course I'd say what they did was right, those people are wrong. I'm actually Democratic. But it was a lesser of two evils type of deal.

It can be looked at as this:

A man (Democrats) has gun to a young girls head. He is threatening to kill her if he does not get $1,000,000

Another man (Republicans) took this mans son, and put a gun to HIS head and says "Drop the girl and I'll let your song go."

That is why the government shut down occurred. It was a stalemate between the two gunmen until a consensus could be reached. The Republicans did what they thought was right. And while it was wrong, it was the lesser of two evils. Republicans are not the Angry, Old, White, Rich, Money Hungry, Ungrateful, Selfish, Overly-Religious B*stards that everyone sees them as. However, much like Muslims, people THINK they all are just because there are the few radicals that give the rest a bad name. So many people believe the stereotype of the Muslim terrorist just because of the few radicals that did some serious damage. Republicans are the same way. So please, this is coming from a democrat, don't blame the majority, for what the minority have done wrong. It's sad that it's come to this. Even though I'm a democrat, I can completely say when the other side is right. And ever since Obama stepped in the office, I've been ashamed to call myself a democrat. Obama stands for one thing.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

 

[Mr Sunshine]

I "Idea" behind Obama-Care is that it will give free or inexpensive healthcare to those who didn't have the income to afford it before, or worked a job that didn't offer it. The problem is, they're making health insurance MANDATORY. That is a COMPLETE violation of our constitutional rights. People in America are up in arms about it. I'll put it this way, if Obama-Care was so amazing, then it would be an option, not a law. The people don't want it. We don't want our children to be micro-chipped. The Republicans were actually right to do what they did. And before people judge me, jumping to the conclusion that I'm Republican so of course I'd say what they did was right, those people are wrong. I'm actually Democratic. But it was a lesser of two evils type of deal.

I still don't get how mandatory healthcare insurance for anyone can be a bad thing. It's not like they're forcing you to do drugs. What can go wrong? It's a basic human right. Everyone should have access to it. Do they give the option in the US to not attend primary and secondary education?

I'm also pretty sure, as shown by recent events, that they don't need mandatory healthcare to monitor their civilians.

 

[Romero]

Sounds like they are trying to implement the new health-care the wrong way. Forcing people to go and shop something is wrong, instead it should have been tax funded. But that is "too socialist" for Americans I guess? It can't work in the US because it does work in nearly every other country?

There are a number of things that must be in place for a state to really be a state. Some key institutions are police, military, health-care, education, and infrastucture. You don't have to go out and shop for military and civil protection, or build roads, the state takes care of it for you. You can hire extra security services and pay for extra education but you don't have to. So why is health-care so different that it can't be tax funded too?

Romero, I'm surprised that you've come to this conclusion just now.

I didn't come to that conclusion yesterday. I just had never expressed it before in that way.

 

[JujuLodestar]

And this is why many call America 'Murica land of the fat, obese, lazy asswipes with the Obama care they barely gotta move a finger now.

 

[KennedyKiller]

I still don't get how mandatory healthcare insurance for anyone can be a bad thing. It's not like they're forcing you to do drugs. What can go wrong? It's a basic human right. Everyone should have access to it. Do they give the option in the US to not attend primary and secondary education?

I'm also pretty sure, as shown by recent events, that they don't need mandatory healthcare to monitor their civilians.

Sounds like they are trying to implement the new health-care the wrong way. Forcing people to go and shop something is wrong, instead it should have been tax funded. But that is "too socialist" for Americans I guess? It can't work in the US because it does work in nearly every other country?

There are a number of things that must be in place for a state to really be a state. Some key institutions are police, military, health-care, education, and infrastucture. You don't have to go out and shop for military and civil protection, or build roads, the state takes care of it for you. You can hire extra security services and pay for extra education but you don't have to. So why is health-care so different that it can't be tax funded too?


I didn't come to that conclusion yesterday. I just had never expressed it before in that way.

There is nothing wrong with Socialism. In fact, socialism is great, however, you have to have a certain type of people, as well as a certain population for that to be attainable. Look at the successful socialist countries.
Denmark - 5.6 million people.

Netherlands - 16.77 million

Finland - 5.4 Million people

All of these countries have populations comparable to nothing but a big CITY as far as the US goes. I mean, hell, New York city is bigger than ALL of these countries population wise. Socialism CAN'T work with a population of over 300 million like we have. Police are funded by the government yes, and I'm not sure if it works where you are, but here we have the Federal Government, then State government (Different for every state in the US) and finally the City government. These different governments each choose how their tax dollars are spent for their respective reasons. Some areas have a much stronger police force than others due to this. The EXACT same with education.

Mr. Sunshine, they actually DO give the parent the option for the child to attend Primary (Here called elementary) and Secondary (Here called Middle) school. If the parents decides they do not want their child in these public schools paid by tax dollars, they can home school their children.

As far as healthcare goes, making it a law that we HAVE to get healthcare is a violation of our rights because it states in the healthcare reform that the Amish do not have to conform with this, nor do the Muslims, due to their religious restrictions. This is rather unfair. For example, I, personally , FEAR hospitals like no other. I was nearly in worse condition from jsut BEING there than my stroke victim Step-Father was. When I broke my arm, I made a sling out of a pillow case and called it good. Also, this healthcare reform is just ONE more thing to increase the laziness, and good for nothingness in America. There are those @$$holes who sit around a beat the system by finding some way to collect welfare checks and not have to work. And THEY get free healthcare even though there is NOTHING wrong with them. People like ME on the other hand, have to work our asses off to get a job that OFFERS a benefits plan that you only qualify for after being there so long, working so many hours, and is still expensive. And if you work at a company that offers one, you are not eligible for the SUPOSSEDELY more cost effective health-care that the government offers. They should give us the CHOICE, and not make it mandatory. With a country of this size, that is only putting MORE control over what USED to be a free nation. It's JUST like gun control. You guys over there in Europe have next to NO gun control laws, and guess what, you have MUCH lower violent crime rates. The more we try to censor gun control here, the worse it will get. Gun control is NOT going to stop the one guy that is INTENT on shooting up his office or classroom. So why are we pushing so hard for it? Control. I wouldn't be surprised if within the next 10 years there is a second civil war in America.

 

[Romero]

KK, all the countries you mentioned (plus pretty much all other European countries) are not socialist. Yes there are socialism, but also capitalism at the same time. It's a mixed system.
And I don't know why you used three small countries as example? What about Japan? Germany? Russia? Brazil? France? And many other countries. I think many of them have tax funded health care. If tax funded health care can't work in the US, it's not because it's impossible in a huge country, it's because your people don't want it to work.

 

[Mr Sunshine]

Mr. Sunshine, they actually DO give the parent the option for the child to attend Primary (Here called elementary) and Secondary (Here called Middle) school. If the parents decides they do not want their child in these public schools paid by tax dollars, they can home school their children.

Yes, which will have the children educated either way. While prior to the healthcare reform, some people wouldn't have healthcare at all from what I've understood.

Unless, you are implying you have the option to not home school your child as well and hence not schooling it at all, which would be ummm.. interesting to say the least.

As for such a change not working for the US, I don't think anybody can be sure in advance - without practical evidence. Personally I don't see why there should be a population limit. If 5 and 15 millions can, why not 300 millions? Of course, there are going to be adjustments from state to state based on each ones needs. And yes, there are going to be people taking advantage of the sittuation. No system is perfect, but i do believe the new one can be better.

And please, i don't want to hear about civil wars >.< I don't want to start learning chinese at my twenties.

 

[KennedyKiller]

Yes, which will have the children educated either way. While prior to the healthcare reform, some people wouldn't have healthcare at all from what I've understood.

Unless, you are implying you have the option to not home school your child as well and hence not schooling it at all, which would be ummm.. interesting to say the least.

As for such a change not working for the US, I don't think anybody can be sure in advance - without practical evidence. Personally I don't see why there should be a population limit. If 5 and 15 millions can, why not 300 millions? Of course, there are going to be adjustments from state to state based on each ones needs. And yes, there are going to be people taking advantage of the sittuation. No system is perfect, but i do believe the new one can be better.

And please, i don't want to hear about civil wars >.< I don't want to start learning chinese at my twenties.

It won't work for 300 million because it will cost SO much more. We cannot PAY for over 300 million to have healthcare, go to school, build roads, build parks, Go to COLLEGE, and other various things. I'm not saying healthcare is bad, but it isn't feasible with this many people. It's far too expensive. How can it POSSIBLY be a good idea if nearly the ENTIRE nation is against it? Look at it man. Almost the WHOLE nation is rearing and ready to go to the white house just for their turn with our dear president. We CAN be sure in advance because other countries have done similar things. Look at how China keeps its population in check. Communism. Sorry, but that's NOT the style in America. And when I say civil war, I don't mean people fighting each other. I mean a revolution of the people revolting against the government. And yes, you can choose to home school your child on paper, and in reality teach them nothing. I've literally seen this done. This girl had been home schooled her whole life, and came over to my house to play with my sister. At age 14 they were watching a History Channel documentary about Dinosaurs, and this girl, Tessa was her name, ACTUALLY asked how they got real life footage of Dinosaurs if they were all dead. THAT is because they were home schooled. Healthcare should be an OPTION. NOT a law. Then it wouldn't be NEAR the fuss it is. But again, THAT'S why there is a population limit. The cost. America is already Trillions upon TRILLIONS of $ in debt. We are a free country. Idealistically at least, and we need to REMAIN as such. Not doing so is an INSULT to the great men that founded my dear country, all because ONE man, our dear president, is really a damned socialist, and is trying to rule this country with an Iron Fist. He has written more executive orders than ANY other president in history! I'm not dissing socialism. I'm really not. I love the idea. But it CAN'T work here. Both financially, AND because of what our people are used to. This man is KILLING the American dream. IDK about the rest of the world, but in America, he is actually compared to Hitler...Stew on that, and then ask how we Americans can think his policies are good things.

 

[Mr Sunshine]

It won't work for 300 million because it will cost SO much more. We cannot PAY for over 300 million to have healthcare, go to school, build roads, build parks, Go to COLLEGE, and other various things. I'm not saying healthcare is bad, but it isn't feasible with this many people. It's far too expensive. How can it POSSIBLY be a good idea if nearly the ENTIRE nation is against it? Look at it man. Almost the WHOLE nation is rearing and ready to go to the white house just for their turn with our dear president. We CAN be sure in advance because other countries have done similar things. Look at how China keeps its population in check. Communism. Sorry, but that's NOT the style in America. And when I say civil war, I don't mean people fighting each other. I mean a revolution of the people revolting against the government. And yes, you can choose to home school your child on paper, and in reality teach them nothing. I've literally seen this done. This girl had been home schooled her whole life, and came over to my house to play with my sister. At age 14 they were watching a History Channel documentary about Dinosaurs, and this girl, Tessa was her name, ACTUALLY asked how they got real life footage of Dinosaurs if they were all dead. THAT is because they were home schooled. Healthcare should be an OPTION. NOT a law. Then it wouldn't be NEAR the fuss it is. But again, THAT'S why there is a population limit. The cost. America is already Trillions upon TRILLIONS of $ in debt. We are a free country. Idealistically at least, and we need to REMAIN as such. Not doing so is an INSULT to the great men that founded my dear country, all because ONE man, our dear president, is really a damned socialist, and is trying to rule this country with an Iron Fist. He has written more executive orders than ANY other president in history! I'm not dissing socialism. I'm really not. I love the idea. But it CAN'T work here. Both financially, AND because of what our people are used to. This man is KILLING the American dream. IDK about the rest of the world, but in America, he is actually compared to Hitler...Stew on that, and then ask how we Americans can think his policies are good things.

Well, if the whole nation is indeed -as you claim- against it, I'm not the one to judge what's better for the US and what's not.

It's funny however that you brought up financial arguments to the table because our dept here is about 300-500 billions for a country of only 10 million people. I'm pretty sure that's huge percentage wise. Our minimum/basic wage has dropped down to 500 euros per month which is approximately 600 dollars if I'm not mistaken. As ****ty as our healthcare system may be it's still free for everyone.

And, yes it's pretty much a given that governments won't have enough money for eductaion and healthcare when they spend so much on warfare... Hell, we haven't had a war for years and the cost just to maintain the military equipment is immense. Maybe someone more relevant can link the expenditure of the US in Iraq and Afganistan. I remember it being somewhere around 500 billions annually or something like that. I'll take a wild guess and say no healthcare costs that much. Not to mention it saves lives rather than kills them.