Revelations 2 Alex Wesker and Natalia confusion

[Dr.Slaughter]

Okay so lately there has been alot of argument over If Alex is dead and if she actually got reborn inside Natalia or if it is just a copied conscious. Some people believe that the "actual Alex Wesker" is indeed dead and that her conscious that is in Natalia is just a copy. Well I personally believe that its not a copy and that it is indeed Alex herself. First of all why would they kill off Alex in only one game? Since she is also a Wesker I would think it would be pretty lame to kill her off in ONE game. I was actually debating with someone about this topic on another forum so I thought that I would just put my take on it entirely on a thread. People seriously need to stop confusing what Alex did and what happend to James Marcus from RE 0. if anyone played RE 0 then they would know how Marcus was " brought back to life". And if anyone hasn't then look it up on the wiki please Because I don't really feel like explaining all that. So is Alex still alive inside Natalia or is that just her copied conscious? I know I will hardly get any responses to this since I am new but I just had to get this off my chest. And I also made sure to post this in a relevant thread. Thanks and peace out.

 

[Venomous Oddball]

I believe it actually is Alex. I don't know why everybody else thinks it's just a copy.

 

[Loki]

It's definitely a copy, but that doesn't mean that it's not the 'real' Alex. There was an Alex in both Natalia's body and Alex's mutated body at the same time. How could that happen if she wasn't copied?

 

[Dr.Slaughter]

It's definitely a copy, but that doesn't mean that it's not the 'real' Alex. There was an Alex in both Natalia's body and Alex's mutated body at the same time. How could that happen if she wasn't copied?

I personally believe that if mutated Alex stayed alive instead of dying then the "Alex" in Natalia would not have been able to awaken.... I know that doesn't make very much sense but ya.

 

[Loki]

I guess that's possible, but I don't really know what would've triggered it, plus Alex's consciousness is shown to be already active in Natalia in the extra episode Little Miss.

 

[Venomous Oddball]

I think the reason why Alex screamed when she was holding Natalia at the end of Episode 3 was because all of a sudden she was inside Natalia's body looking at herself, so when she went back into her old body she freaked out because she had two bodies and didn't even know how to control which one she was in.

 

[Loki]

Really? I kind of assumed that she screamed because Alex activaed in Natalia and she was going to attack her, kind of like in the bad ending. Speaking of the bad ending, I know it's non-canon but Natalia-Alex tears out Alex's heart thing while she is still in her body.

 

[Venomous Oddball]

Really? I kind of assumed that she screamed because Alex activaed in Natalia and she was going to attack her, kind of like in the bad ending. Speaking of the bad ending, I know it's non-canon but Natalia-Alex tears out Alex's heart thing while she is still in her body.

Maybe. Also maybe her mind was in two different bodies at once somehow? If it is a copy it's still basically Alex though like you said.

 

[Dr.Slaughter]

Maybe. Also maybe her mind was in two different bodies at once somehow? If it is a copy it's still basically Alex though like you said.

I believe ironically enough that when Alex's body was killed in the good ending, that allowed her to awaken in Natalia because the problem from the beginning was that Alex's body mutated and came back to life instead of dying. Alex didn't want this to happen because that would lead to there being 2 Alex's over time.. Hope my jumbled up theory made some sorta of sense. Oh and something completly unrekated that I need to know........ how old does a threa have to be to where you cant post something?

 

[Venomous Oddball]

I believe ironically enough that when Alex's body was killed in the good ending, that allowed her to awaken in Natalia because the problem from the beginning was that Alex's body mutated and came back to life instead of dying. Alex didn't want this to happen because that would lead to there being 2 Alex's over time.. Hope my jumbled up theory made some sorta of sense. Oh and something completly unrekated that I need to know........ how old does a threa have to be to where you cant post something?

I'm not exactly sure with the thread situation. I usually draw the line at a month, but you could contact a moderator to ask about that or ask for permission to bump a specific thread that's older.

 

[Dr.Slaughter]

I'm not exactly sure with the thread situation. I usually draw the line at a month, but you could contact a moderator to ask about that or ask for permission to bump a specific thread that's older.

k thanks. Im new here and don't want to make to many noobish mistakes

 

[Venomous Oddball]

k thanks. Im new here and don't want to make to many noobish mistakes

I just realized I never got to welcome you! So welcome! xD

On topic, I'm not even sure Capcom knows what's going on with Alex.

 

[Dr.Slaughter]

I just realized I never got to welcome you! So welcome! xD

On topic, I'm not even sure Capcom knows what's going on with Alex.

thanks.. for the welcome.xd
Also on topic ... Ya I would be so frustrated if they just forgot about her or said something along the lines of " Oh well turns out Natalia was able to overcome Alex Wesker.... the end"

 

[Hel]

The way I see this whole issue, it's like someone putting a piece of paper on a copying machine and pressing "copy". If done well, i. e. if the paper is lying just in the right place and the machine isn't malfunctioning, the copy coming out will look exactly like the original, but it will still be a different paper.

Alex transferred a perfect copy of her mind into Christmas Girl's body, but not her soul. In other words: No, the real Alex did not awaken in another body, and I find it hard to believe that a supposedly brilliant scientist like her could actually fall for an unrealistic assumption like that. But she realised her mistake, and that's the entire reason she's so pi$$ed off. If the experiment had just not worked, she could have tried again, but the experiment did work, just not in the way she imagined, and then there was a younger, healthier and better-looking copy of herself running around while she was still trapped in that old, dying, and recently mutated body.

Whether you believe in reincarnation or not, it should be clear that a single soul can't be in two places at once, and the bad ending (though not canon) clearly shows this to be the case when Natalex kills Alex. I think this should answer the question.

 

[Spikeyroxas]

The Alex that resides within Natalias subconscious is a copy of her mind at the time of transfer.

Alex knew if they're was two of them it would lead to a who is the real Alex scenario which is why she killed herself (though didn't expect to feel fear and be brought back as a Mutant)

However the above is sort of irrelevant now.

Alex *Is* alive but doesn't have a body of her own anymore. She shares Natalias body and has her memories of being Alex up to the point of transfer.
Memories from Mutant Alex after transfer are not hers and she won't remember that stuff apart from when Natalia witnesses any of it.

To the main point,
She is a copy, but now the original is gone, can be considored the main.

 

[Airaku]

Welcome to the forums Dr Slaughter Get ready for a ride because this is going to be a long read but it'll probably put things into perspective for you and maybe even give you new insight on the matters.

This is definitely a very complicated question and there isn't a definite answer at this point and only debates and what people want to believe. The fact is this as stated by the game itself! Alex's consciousness was transferred! Now we can all assume that it was a case of copy pasta but it's more complicated that that. Now it is possible that Alex was confused and could have experienced herself in two places at once but this seems a little out there at first, but ask yourself this; is it really? (more on this later). It is also interesting that in the "Little Miss" episode that the Alex inside of Natalia actually guided her places and this eventually led her to Alex's monster form. I also want to point out that we do not know what the TRIGGER was to cause Alex to awaken in Natalia's body two years later. There was a developer interview that one of the directors (can't remember if it was Anpo or Okabe) that said that they are going to explore this at a later date. Most people assume that it was the announcement of the razing of Tall Oaks on TV. This is simply not true as she wouldn't have had neither the newspaper and most definitely not the book "Metamorphosis" by Franz Kafka if it just "occurred" like that. I don't want to come off as rude but anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron. Who in the right mind actually believes that Barry brought her a copy of that book after all they have been through? Is this someone's idea of a sick joke? The Alex within Natalia was struggling to awaken in Natalia and has finally won over. I would not be surprise if Natalia is a future main protagonist and a game will take place within her mind with Alex tormenting her to keep control over her body.

This transfer was Alex's means to immortality but if it is really her remains to be in question. Personally I want to believe that it IS indeed her. Revelations 2 runs many parallels with the first game. Like Albert dying and reviving more powerful as ever... Alex did the same. She also has a much bigger God complex and a greater sense of superiority than Albert did and that is saying something. Yes it is true that Alex has always been smarter than Albert and superior in many ways, she did however lack her powers and as such she was unable to surpass Albert in that element and she wanted to overcome this sickness. RE5 stated that she has far more potential and is better than ANY of the Weskers. She was also the only one to know the truth about Project W. I believe that the meaning of the bad ending was to only show without a shadow of a doubt that Alex transfer was a success and she has access to her powers. Alex's sickness prevented her from accessing the powers within her, and it is strongly hinted that she will not need any injections to use these powers like Albert did. There was also a dev interview where it was stated that the powers that resided within Alex was also transferred into Natalia's body. Rather this is logical or not remains in question but it is however a necessity in terms of the story moving forward regarding Alex's character. The bad ending served to show players exactly how far Alex went in her transfer project.

Now that the basic stuff from the game is out of the way its time to get in-depth. Ironically I noticed that you posted on another thread right under what I said on this matter. If you read that then it we can understand that the bottom line is this Alex is Alex no matter what perspective you put it in. Cogito Ergo Sum wins out here and is probably Alex's perspective on the matters and is the philosophy that Capcom is likely going by with her character. It's actually funny how the game is so focused on Philosophy so one really has to take that into perspective. I've actually had to study this when I took philosophy in university It's a little complicated and might be hard to explain but here it goes (I'll be doing some copy pasta from my other post and I swear it's not a transfer )

One of the biggest debates in philosophy on this matter is if you transfer your consciousness and/or copy it. Are you still YOU? Are you a split person until your original body dies and then whole again afterwards. Not just your memories transferred but will you experience yourself no different than you did before? Meaning you are 100% you and you experience the same way? It's confusing but imagine that you're two souls in two different bodies at once and no longer whole. Your perception is split and you are confused with the desire to be whole again and in order to do so you must kill the other body to have 100% perception and experience in one. Just like you are right now at this very moment as you read this. You are you just as I am me and we perceive differently and we are our own individual. In Alex's case it is very possible that what she experienced is the same as what a worm would experience after being cut in half. This is a controversial subject in both Science and Philosophy, of course the former and the latter could not exist with each other as Philosophy is the thoughts of theory and Science is the execution of such.

"Cogito ergo sum"
""x" thinks
I am that "x"
Therefore I think
Therefore I am"

The problem is this is also a matter of debate in Rev 2 and the developers keep flip-flopping.... ughh! They NEED to make up their mind so fans can stfu! If it's from a philosophical point a few and is indeed Cogito ergo sum... then yes the original Alex and Alex within Natalia are one and the same and she is "immortal" in her eyes. Alex shows the desire to be whole again and the one thing that a dev interview stated was that she was trying to become whole again and that there can only be ONE Alex in the world.

"… this proposition: I am, I exist, whenever it is uttered from me, or conceived by the mind, necessarily is true"

"But if life itself is good and pleasant (...) and if one who sees is conscious that he sees, one who hears that he hears, one who walks that he walks and similarly for all the other human activities there is a faculty that is conscious of their exercise, so that whenever we perceive, we are conscious that we perceive, and whenever we think, we are conscious that we think, and to be conscious that we are perceiving or thinking is to be conscious that we exist..."

So I conclude that Alex MUST be Alex and that they are one and the same. I tend to prefer to take a neutral stance on this topic due to all the fighting between fans. However one cannot ignore the above statements as we exist because of our thoughts and out consciousness. Alex thinks and therefore she is. Alex is therefore Alex and it can't get any more real than that.

TL;DR: It's complicated but Alex is indeed Alex and Alex will find you and experiment on you for being so lazy! xD

Maybe. Also maybe her mind was in two different bodies at once somehow? If it is a copy it's still basically Alex though like you said.

I put a little insight of what you said in perspective. What Spikeyroxas said below must be considered and is in my mind without a doubt true. Her new brain would not have any of the memories of Alex's old body after the transfer took place. This is why she wasn't ****ed off in her new body. Unless her consciousness of course merged these two experiences and memories which is entirely possible. Hope this helps

Alex *Is* alive but doesn't have a body of her own anymore. She shares Natalia's body and has her memories of being Alex up to the point of transfer.
Memories from Mutant Alex after transfer are not hers and she won't remember that stuff apart from when Natalia witnesses any of it.

 

[jayshizzo]

Welcome to the forums Dr Slaughter Get ready for a ride because this is going to be a long read but it'll probably put things into perspective for you and maybe even give you new insight on the matters.

This is definitely a very complicated question and there isn't a definite answer at this point and only debates and what people want to believe. The fact is this as stated by the game itself! Alex's consciousness was transferred! Now we can all assume that it was a case of copy pasta but it's more complicated that that. Now it is possible that Alex was confused and could have experienced herself in two places at once but this seems a little out there at first, but ask yourself this; is it really? (more on this later). It is also interesting that in the "Little Miss" episode that the Alex inside of Natalia actually guided her places and this eventually led her to Alex's monster form. I also want to point out that we do not know what the TRIGGER was to cause Alex to awaken in Natalia's body two years later. There was a developer interview that one of the directors (can't remember if it was Anpo or Okabe) that said that they are going to explore this at a later date. Most people assume that it was the announcement of the razing of Tall Oaks on TV. This is simply not true as she wouldn't have had neither the newspaper and most definitely not the book "Metamorphosis" by Franz Kafka if it just "occurred" like that. I don't want to come off as rude but anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron. Who in the right mind actually believes that Barry brought her a copy of that book after all they have been through? Is this someone's idea of a sick joke? The Alex within Natalia was struggling to awaken in Natalia and has finally won over. I would not be surprise if Natalia is a future main protagonist and a game will take place within her mind with Alex tormenting her to keep control over her body.

This transfer was Alex's means to immortality but if it is really her remains to be in question. Personally I want to believe that it IS indeed her. Revelations 2 runs many parallels with the first game. Like Albert dying and reviving more powerful as ever... Alex did the same. She also has a much bigger God complex and a greater sense of superiority than Albert did and that is saying something. Yes it is true that Alex has always been smarter than Albert and superior in many ways, she did however lack her powers and as such she was unable to surpass Albert in that element and she wanted to overcome this sickness. RE5 stated that she has far more potential and is better than ANY of the Weskers. She was also the only one to know the truth about Project W. I believe that the meaning of the bad ending was to only show without a shadow of a doubt that Alex transfer was a success and she has access to her powers. Alex's sickness prevented her from accessing the powers within her, and it is strongly hinted that she will not need any injections to use these powers like Albert did. There was also a dev interview where it was stated that the powers that resided within Alex was also transferred into Natalia's body. Rather this is logical or not remains in question but it is however a necessity in terms of the story moving forward regarding Alex's character. The bad ending served to show players exactly how far Alex went in her transfer project.

Now that the basic stuff from the game is out of the way its time to get in-depth. Ironically I noticed that you posted on another thread right under what I said on this matter. If you read that then it we can understand that the bottom line is this Alex is Alex no matter what perspective you put it in. Cogito Ergo Sum wins out here and is probably Alex's perspective on the matters and is the philosophy that Capcom is likely going by with her character. It's actually funny how the game is so focused on Philosophy so one really has to take that into perspective. I've actually had to study this when I took philosophy in university It's a little complicated and might be hard to explain but here it goes (I'll be doing some copy pasta from my other post and I swear it's not a transfer )

One of the biggest debates in philosophy on this matter is if you transfer your consciousness and/or copy it. Are you still YOU? Are you a split person until your original body dies and then whole again afterwards. Not just your memories transferred but will you experience yourself no different than you did before? Meaning you are 100% you and you experience the same way? It's confusing but imagine that you're two souls in two different bodies at once and no longer whole. Your perception is split and you are confused with the desire to be whole again and in order to do so you must kill the other body to have 100% perception and experience in one. Just like you are right now at this very moment as you read this. You are you just as I am me and we perceive differently and we are our own individual. In Alex's case it is very possible that what she experienced is the same as what a worm would experience after being cut in half. This is a controversial subject in both Science and Philosophy, of course the former and the latter could not exist with each other as Philosophy is the thoughts of theory and Science is the execution of such.

"Cogito ergo sum"
""x" thinks
I am that "x"
Therefore I think
Therefore I am"

The problem is this is also a matter of debate in Rev 2 and the developers keep flip-flopping.... ughh! They NEED to make up their mind so fans can stfu! If it's from a philosophical point a few and is indeed Cogito ergo sum... then yes the original Alex and Alex within Natalia are one and the same and she is "immortal" in her eyes. Alex shows the desire to be whole again and the one thing that a dev interview stated was that she was trying to become whole again and that there can only be ONE Alex in the world.

"… this proposition: I am, I exist, whenever it is uttered from me, or conceived by the mind, necessarily is true"

"But if life itself is good and pleasant (...) and if one who sees is conscious that he sees, one who hears that he hears, one who walks that he walks and similarly for all the other human activities there is a faculty that is conscious of their exercise, so that whenever we perceive, we are conscious that we perceive, and whenever we think, we are conscious that we think, and to be conscious that we are perceiving or thinking is to be conscious that we exist..."

So I conclude that Alex MUST be Alex and that they are one and the same. I tend to prefer to take a neutral stance on this topic due to all the fighting between fans. However one cannot ignore the above statements as we exist because of our thoughts and out consciousness. Alex thinks and therefore she is. Alex is therefore Alex and it can't get any more real than that.

TL;DR: It's complicated but Alex is indeed Alex and Alex will find you and experiment on you for being so lazy! xD



I put a little insight of what you said in perspective. What Spikeyroxas said below must be considered and is in my mind without a doubt true. Her new brain would not have any of the memories of Alex's old body after the transfer took place. This is why she wasn't ****ed off in her new body. Unless her consciousness of course merged these two experiences and memories which is entirely possible. Hope this helps

sounds more complicated.The fact that the story is complicated in itself makes it a huge FAIL in my opinion.

 

[Dr.Slaughter]

Thanks everyone for replying. I am surprised I had so many replies considering I am new. Ok what I now know for certain is that everyone is going to have different takes on weather the Alex inside Natalia is actually Alex or rather "Alex"(meaning just a copy). However we all know at least that weather it is a copy or not its going to behave the exact same way as Alex would so for all intent and purposes Alex is alive.

Oh and off topic ..... I have noticed some people have an xbox 360 symbol thing under where it says trophies , so if anyone could tell me what that means and whatever I would appreciate it. .

 

[Airaku]

Thanks everyone for replying. I am surprised I had so many replies considering I am new. Ok what I now know for certain is that everyone is going to have different takes on weather the Alex inside Natalia is actually Alex or rather "Alex"(meaning just a copy). However we all know at least that weather it is a copy or not its going to behave the exact same way as Alex would so for all intent and purposes Alex is alive.

Oh and off topic ..... I have noticed some people have an xbox 360 symbol thing under where it says trophies , so if anyone could tell me what that means and whatever I would appreciate it. .

Absolutely, all it means is that we have our gamer profiles linked to our accounts. If you click mine it'll go straight to my profile page on Xbox.com. I was a huge 360 fan back in the day, this gen I switched to PS4 though.

 

[Airaku]

I want to add one more thing to what I said above when I gave my explanation as further evidence. This is all from in the game itself! As we all know, Natalia became confused because Alex's memories were merging with hers and Alex's consciousness was trying to take over. They are of course their own individuals and the real Natalia is trapped inside and will clearly try to fight to be herself again post Rev2 (this is obvious) and be a complete pain in Alex's ass. I'm sure Alex will be trapping Natalia with horrors to keep her drowned and possibly try to destroy her consciousness so there is no resistance. In the end I think Natalia will either win and defeat Alex or force her to find another body... such as Sherry's who would be perfect since the G-Virus bonded with her and she will live for up to 400 years. I wouldn't be surprised if Alex sets her sights on Sherry at some point >.>

Anyways back on track to what I wanted to point out. That Alex shows a sign of confusion and perhaps multiple personality disorder near the end. The final document of the game and what Alex says explains A LOT! Alex was thankful that reawakened as herself so she could fix the mistake, that mistake was Natalia.

Spoken bit regarding the True or False:

"I alone am true. You are false Natalia."
"You reject what was given to you... You reject your memories.... False!"
"Begone False one."

Now the document is confusing because it can be taken as evidence for both sides of the argument. HOWEVER once you realise that "She" refers to Natalia and NOT the Alex within Natalia. Everything begins to come clear and Alex wants to awaken. I'll explain it paragraph by paragraph.

"I survived... My escape wasn't death. I have no one to blame but myself"
Alex's escape wasn't just death. It was to Awaken within Natalia and destroying Natalia's consciousness and being only her! The one and only Alex.

"When I pulled the trigger... in that instant the thought of vanishing from this world.. Me! Me of all people... I came to feel fear."
This is why she mutated and she felt fear because what if this was the end and the transfer was a failure?

"How ironic. The viruses inside of me... rotting away my body to the point of death, saved me from death."
People seem to think this only refers to the T-Phobos virus. This is untrue and it says "viruses". While she survived the Prototype Virus from Project W. it made her sick and this sickness was killing her. She did not have much time left and she needed to find another means of immortality once she realised that the body will age is an inescapable fact. Resident Evil 5 stated in the Ndipaya tribe file that even those who bond with the Progenitor virus will only have prolonged life and their body will shut down centuries later. Alex knew this and she then poured all of her resources to find an alternative. She cracked it and succeeded where everyone else failed.

"I have become ugly. Hideous. I can't stand the sight of myself. This isn't me. This ugly creature..."
This one is very self-explanatory. She is very angry about her monster form and she states that it isn't really her.

"But soon another me will awaken. The vessel I transferred myself into."
This is obviously referring to the transfer and how she, Alex, is now in Natalia's body but had not awaken yet.

"I won't allow it. I forbid it. She is the ugly one. Yet she'll look at me and laugh at how hideous I am."
This line is confusing as it contradicts pretty much everything else. However it could be a result of confusion and arguing with herself in the sense of multipersonality. "She is the ugly one." is clearly referring to Natalia, where the "she'll look at me and laugh at how hideous I am." likely refers to the Alex within Natalia BUT could be referring to Natalia as Alex's memories are bleeding into Natalia's.

"Why have I become so hideous?"
Alex is ****ed the **** off!

"I am me. But I am not. I awakened as myself. But then she will also awaken as me. Both are true."
Alex says that she is me because she awakened as herself. Then she states that she is not her because there are now two of her. She wants the Alex within Natalia to be her and not the monstrous form that she is in. Both are true and she wants to fix this "mistake" and be whole again.

No! There can only be one true me. And that is me! She can never be me. She is false. She is a farce. That is why she cannot be allowed to persist. She must be eliminated."
Alex wants to be whole again and is concerned that Natalia's consciousness will be in control with Alex's memories bleeding into Natalia. Alex calls Natalia a joke and that she must be eliminated so only Alex can exist in Natalia's body and only Alex alone is true!

"I am me. Only I am true. I'll use that abomination. Albert's final legacy. I'll smother this insufferable island with Uroboros. She will be eviscerated. She will come to know fear. You will feel the icy embraces of death... Natalia..."
Alex is once again stating that only Alex herself is true and that Natalia cannot interfere with her and she won't let Natalia become her due to memories bleeding (the memory bleeding effect has occurred multiple times throughout the game and Natalia has become confused by it more than a few times). Ironically even Alex thinks Uroboros is a **** virus "I'll use that abomination." LMAO. I'll admit Uroboros had a dozen flaws with it but this is not important, just part of what she is saying. She will use Uroboros as she has modified it to infect the island to further scare Natalia and make her feel fear! (it was stated earlier in the game that Natalia has conquered fear and is incapable of feeling fear). She will ensure that Natalia will die. In the bad ending of the game the monster Alex is "eviscerated."

"And then, when you die false one, I will take your body. I will become the true me. Natalia... you must die.."
This right here is the final word and the most important quote in the whole game to prove that the Alex within Natalia is 100% is the real Alex and one and the same. Alex wants to make sure that Natalia's consciousness is dead and gone from this world. Alex and Alex alone will be the true Alex in a new young, beautiful, and extremely capable body.

It is true that in the good ending Natalia is still alive and having a tug-of-war with Alex.
I believe that the bad ending was created to show that Alex without a shed of doubt won and succeeded no matter what ending you got. To clear confusion so to speak.
In the bad ending we see that Alex kills Natalia. We see Natalia's arms, head, and legs go limp. We see the result of what happens when someone dies and their consciousness is no longer functional or present in their body. Alex crushes Natalia with so much pain that her body let up and she died. Once Natalia was dead, the Alex within her kick-started the body and took complete control. Alex then eviscerated her old body and became whole again, the one true Alex. Exactly as the document above stated would happen. It is odd how the powers within Alex transferred as well, while this isn't exactly logical, it happened. Alex's new body isn't sick and can now have the powers that were always hers but were previously inaccessible due to her illness. In the end there is just to much evidence in the game that shows that Alex is Alex!