Catcalling - Just a Compliment or Degrading to Women?

[La Femme Fatale]

I'm going to keep last week's Question stickied because it's still pretty active, but I'm curious as to what people think about this.

I'm sure a lot of people have seen the video below. The comments are pretty polarizing; lots of people sympathetic to the issue being discussed, but just as many convinced that catcalling is harmless. What are your thoughts on catcalling? Have you ever catcalled anyone and if you have - why? How does it make you feel to be catcalled?

 

[Venomous Oddball]

I generally find it embarrassing, though it's also a sign people find you good looking, which then I guess it would also be a compliment. But if somebody that's with you is getting catcalls, it's kind of offensive because the people think you aren't attractive.

 

[tremor]

I think it's disgusting and incredibly creepy. What ticks me off is the men who get angry or even offended because we women don't respond to the catcalling the way they would like us to respond. It's incredibly degrading; it's not like they are complimenting us. Telling a young woman what a "fine ass" she has or whatever isn't the way you compliment a woman. I mean, if you're the type of woman who does enjoy that kind of talk from strangers then fine. I personally find that 99% of the time, men who catcall view women as pieces of meat. What's worse is the ones who decide to follow you and keep trying to get you to answer them. They don't realize how uncomfortable they make women; they appear to be predators stalking prey. This is part of the reason why women don't feel safe walking the streets, especially at night.

I have definitely seen that video before. There's also a video out there, shot by women, and they stand around and spout the female equivalent of catcalls as men walk by. The things they choose to say are actually kind of amusing.

EDIT:

I have been catcalled before and I have even gone as far as giving them the finger....to show them just how I feel lol. It made me feel very uncomfortable, like I stated above. Sure...they obviously saw something they liked about me but catcalling isn't the way to go.

 

[KevinStriker]

In general, it really depends on the woman. Some like the attention, some think it's creepy. It's really just a gamble when a guy catcalls what her reaction is going to be, so I don't advise it.

Me personally, I think it's piggish and I don't do it.

EDIT: This is more pertaining to the video itself, but 10 hours of footage and they barely have two minutes of catcalling, and most of it pretty tame compared to some of the other stuff you could hear? If they're trying to imply that catcalling is a big issue, that's not very convincing to me.

 

[Hel]

Call me the black sheep, but apart from a few exceptions like that dark-skinned guy who kept walking next to her for five minutes (stalker!), and the other one that wouldn't stop talking even though she didn't reply, I saw nothing in this video that I would call offensive or "verbal harassment", as they call it at the end. None of the guys said: "Hey b!tch, show me some titties!" That would have been inappropriate.

Such things don't happen where I live now, strangers usually don't acknowledge each other at all, so you can imagine how surprised, if not shocked I was when I went to France on holiday and it happened to me quite a few times. But I never felt threatened by those guys. Flashfoward to London, a few years later: Within the first five minutes of entering Hyde Park to go for a walk there, I got hit on twice, and a third time a little later. Again, I wasn't used to that at all, but then I thought, why should we criminalise people for paying us compliments? Would it be better if they called us ugly? In the end we don't need to care what they think because we're probably never going to see them again, but I still prefer compliments over insults.

And let's be honest, girls: It's not like we see a hot guy in the street and don't think anything. Most of us just don't say it aloud. Then again, when there's a group of women, they usually stick their heads together and babble and giggle while the guy is technically still within earshot and can clearly tell that they're talking about him, even if he doesn't understand the words. As if that was any better.

 

[La Femme Fatale]

I find my thoughts on this are somewhere in the middle.

Regarding the video, I do agree with Hel that there were only a couple of men who were truly incredibly inappropriate in their remarks and their behaviour. The guys who followed her when they clearly were not welcome totally crossed the line. Some people really need to know when to cut it out. I remember several years ago being catcalled when I was walking home alone one night. It's totally not okay to make someone feel unsafe - I feel that crossed the same line.

I get catcalled at few times a week. While I never enjoy it, I've learned to just let it go - the behaviour is, sadly, not going anywhere. And I'm going to be perfectly honest - I've only ever been catcalled by someone I personally find physically attractive maybe once or twice. At the same time, I sort of feel that better men would find a different way to express themselves. I have a friend who met her current boyfriend because he came up to her on the sidewalk and told her she was beautifuL. It was a far more respectful way to do it, rather than yelling out 'nice legs, babe'.

And that brings me to my last point - respect. If you're going to do it, have enough respect not to say anything you wouldn't say or want said to your mother. Capiche?

 

[tremor]

Since a couple of people have commented on the contents of the video, I would like to add that I agree with the both of you as far as the video is concerned. People won't think it's a big deal unless it has happened to them. And I'm not talking about "wow you're beautiful!"; what woman in their right mind would be offended by that? That is a legit compliment. The part that irks me are the pigs who will go so far as to say "you wanna (and I'm putting it lightly here) have sex?" to a woman they don't even know. It comes back to the fact that some men view women as meat and that's what is so degrading about catcalling. Some men mean well and they usually have better manners than to spout a bunch of crap that they think to be "compliments". The same can be said for women who stand around "babbling and giggling" as @Hel put it. I'm sure there are men out there who feel the same as far as being catcalled is concerned. It does happen to men too.

If I had never experienced a catcall and saw the video, I'm not sure I would be entirely convinced either. I've experienced some of the ahem, nastier sides to catcalling and so this is why I have such a strong opinion when it comes to the topic of catcalling.

I was raised to accept when someone is complimenting you and to feel good about it. And I do enjoy compliments. I just don't want to be talked to like I'm a prostitute for hire or a porn star. If you wanna talk to me like I'm a porn star then honey you're gonna have to become my boyfriend lmao. Women should always be a "lady in the streets" and how you act behind closed doors is up to you.

EDIT:

@La Femme Fatale nailed it. It's all about respect.

 

[Hel]

I can see what you mean with the respect argument. Perhaps I'm just hardened. If you want to know something really creepy, ask me what happened to me eight years ago. (Or like this post so I know you're interested; I don't want to bore anyone with stories from my past.) Catcalling is relatively harmless compared to that.

 

[Venomous Oddball]

I think it's disgusting and incredibly creepy. What ticks me off is the men who get angry or even offended because we women don't respond to the catcalling the way they would like us to respond. It's incredibly degrading; it's not like they are complimenting us. Telling a young woman what a "fine ass" she has or whatever isn't the way you compliment a woman. I mean, if you're the type of woman who does enjoy that kind of talk from strangers then fine. I personally find that 99% of the time, men who catcall view women as pieces of meat. What's worse is the ones who decide to follow you and keep trying to get you to answer them. They don't realize how uncomfortable they make women; they appear to be predators stalking prey. This is part of the reason why women don't feel safe walking the streets, especially at night.

I have definitely seen that video before. There's also a video out there, shot by women, and they stand around and spout the female equivalent of catcalls as men walk by. The things they choose to say are actually kind of amusing.

EDIT:

I have been catcalled before and I have even gone as far as giving them the finger....to show them just how I feel lol. It made me feel very uncomfortable, like I stated above. Sure...they obviously saw something they liked about me but catcalling isn't the way to go.

I totally agree with this. They could give an actual compliment instead of catcalling. Before I said it was kind of a compliment, they obviously like something about you like you said and are telling you, but it is degrading and embarrassing, so I guess it depends on the way you look at it. To me it's just creepy and offensive.

 

[Jen]

I think that if somebody wants to pay you a compliment, they can do it politely to your face and in a far more dignified manner than shouting it at you on the street.

Where I live, catcalling is most often done by builders or gangs. I think that those people aren't doing it to pay a woman a compliment, they're doing it to act clever in front of their friends/co-workers, particularly since most of them laugh about it afterwards. I don't think I've ever seen a woman who actually takes notice of such a compliment - in fact, I would say that most of the time they seem more harassed or embarrassed and want to get out of the area as quickly as possible.

I definitely think that it is wrong to make someone feel unsafe. This has happened to me once. It was 8 in the morning and I thought I would be safe to walk down to the corner shop in my casual clothes that I wear in the house and with my hair still wet from the shower (the shop is literally less than a minute's walk away and the estate where I live is really quiet at that time, and I wasn't wearing anything indecent). What I didn't know was that there were four or five builders working on one of the houses along the way. From the scaffolding they were literally shouting revolting things at me and whistling. The thing was, I was only fifteen years old at the time, and I was terrified, especially when I had to walk past them again.

I've also seen people get catcalled for not being very good-looking. I know this sounds kind of stupid, but hear me out. One of my best friend's friends has had people catcall her because she's not what most people would call good-looking, and they do it to make their friends laugh. I've seen it happen, and it ruins her day because it embarrasses her in front of her friends and makes her feel awful about herself, and she's even cried over it. I know that that doesn't seem like the same thing, but they say the same things in a way that shows that they don't actually think that and are doing it to make their friends laugh.

At the end of the day, I think that if a guy wants to give a girl a compliment, it would mean far more face to face, and avoids the possibility of making someone feel harassed or embarrassed. However, it should be done in an unobtrusive way so that the girl can move away if she wants to, and not like with the guy in the video who walked alongside the girl for four minutes.

 

[Springhosen]

I agree with "disgusting and incredibly creepy". Always makes me feel .. Icky I guess is the only way to put it. Not a compliment at all.

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

Male who doesn't catcall perspective

I think it draws attention to both people and not necessarily in the best way. It's kind of slimy. I mean, we (men) can't help it if we see someone attractive. Louis CK breaks down just how it can take over your train of thought, even if you don't want it to. When you're out in public, I've found that's usually not a good enough excuse to talk to women, let alone yell it from across the street.

Generally just feels like I'd be wasting my efforts drawing attention to someone who doesn't want it.

It's also a cultural thing. Some countries do it a lot, some don't. They gave a pep talk to the girls going on an exchange trip to Spain in my high school. It just happens left and right in some places. I've seen central and south americans get fired from work for similar behavior which is the norm where they come from. Up here we value respecting boundaries a bit more. May make us all look frigid to some of them but meh.

 

[Hel]

Okay, two people liked my post, so I take it they're interested in my story. It all began as an ordinary day in September. An ordinary day in Raccoon City...

No. It began as an ordinary day in winter, Christmas Eve to be exact. There was a little box in front of my door, it said my name and "personal" on it, no sender, and it contained a scented little pillow and a letter. Even though the pillow did smell a little weird, I thought: "An anonymous Christmas present, how nice!" ... until I read the letter. It was a poem, the contents of which would probably violate quite a few forum rules if I quoted them here, so I'll skip that part. I'll just say, one line suggested that the sender had used the pillow in the box for something you don't usually do with a pillow. (Or perhaps men do... Hell if I know.)

At first I thought it was just a (bad) joke from one of my friends. The initials of the "poet" at the end of the letter even suggested that it was an old friend of mine who I hadn't seen in two years. It would have been strange if he had been behind it, but he wasn't. Neither was any of my other friends, or so they said. But the presents kept coming, not only to my home, but also other places I frequently visited, I started getting mysterious calls in the middle of the night, and one night the doorbell rang and I didn't answer it (even though it itched me to do so), but when I went out the next morning, I stumbled upon yet another present with a letter.

And those letters were even creepier than the presents. That guy knew things about me that no random stranger could possibly have known, suggesting it had to be one of my "friends" after all, or someone who had hacked my computer, or someone who was just watching me very closely. There was a time when I couldn't leave the house without looking over my shoulder every two seconds. Not that I couldn't have defended myself if something had happened, but still.

I went to the police eventually, but there was nothing they could do. The letters were written with a typewriter, the initials weren't much to go on, and examining them for fingerprints would have been pointless because several people had already touched them at that point. It's been quiet for a few years now, I have changed my phone number and not received any more presents ever since. But I still don't know who it was, for all I know he could still be around. All I can say is that I had a stalker for quite a while, and maybe that's why I consider catcalling just some immature fun rather than real harassment.

 

[Angel]

I get the opposite - I get what I would call "dogcalling", when men go out of their way to call you fat and ugly. Happens a lot and I'm used to it now to the point of barely registering it.

So with that in mind I can't really comment from experience about being catcalled as it has never happened. However whilst I know some women love it I would say they are in the minority and probably only love it until the guy starts following or acting on what he thinks must be a green light. I guess judging from comments here by those of you who garner positive attention from men, it isn't a great way of making you feel awesome.

 

[La Femme Fatale]

I went to the police eventually, but there was nothing they could do. The letters were written with a typewriter, the initials weren't much to go on, and examining them for fingerprints would have been pointless because several people had already touched them at that point.

That seems super odd to me. Why not scan all them for fingerprints anyway to find consistencies? Collect all the prints, eliminate those of the people who aren't suspects. Seems like incredibly lazy police work to disregard fingerprint evidence when a young girl is obviously being threatened.

Anyway, that aside, I'm sorry that happened to you, Hel. I'm glad to hear that this person seems to have stopped.

I think this just goes to prove that women deal with harassment differently. I understand that you feel catcalling is less threatening because you've dealt with worse. While I don't intend to discuss it here, I've had an experience of being sexually assaulted, which left me a bit mistrustful of men and that's why I have my guard up around men who catcall. Like I said before - it goes back to making someone feel unsafe, regardless of intentions.

I get the opposite - I get what I would call "dogcalling", when men go out of their way to call you fat and ugly. Happens a lot and I'm used to it now to the point of barely registering it.

I hate that too - that's straight-up bullying and guys who do that are pretty terribly human beings.

 

[Hel]

That seems super odd to me. Why not scan all them for fingerprints anyway to find consistencies? Collect all the prints, eliminate those of the people who aren't suspects. Seems like incredibly lazy police work to disregard fingerprint evidence when a young girl is obviously being threatened.

No idea. They told me it would be pointless, and all they could offer was a "charge against a person unknown", which would have been equally pointless. Not knowing any better, I just believed them. But after what happened at work yesterday, when an old man called the police because he had received some unwanted mail from us (I talked about this in the other thread), and the police actually started investigating, I know I should have gone to that station instead.

It wasn't all for nothing, though. What happened to me gave me an idea for a subplot in my novel series, so there was at least one good thing about it. And by the way, thank you for calling me a "young girl", I really appreciate it.

 

[La Femme Fatale]

Hel, may I ask roughly how old you were eight years ago? If that number begins with a '1' and not a '2' then yes, you were quite possibly a young girl when that happened.

And if not, then I apologize - I can hardly be expected to know your age if it's not listed. I merely thought you were a teenager at the time of the events you described.

 

[Romero]

Catcalling, what a funny word! Are women cats?

I only saw two (three?) men who harassed or stalked that woman. The rest seemed harmless to me.

What is harassment?

Definition of harass:

ha·rass (hə-răs′, hăr′əs)
1. To subject (another) to hostile or prejudicial remarks or actions; pressure or intimidate.
2. To irritate or torment persistently: His mind was harassed by doubts and misgivings.
3. To make repeated attacks or raids on (an enemy, for example).​

I don't think it's bad to compliment someone, but I would not personally do it. I'm just too shy for it and it doesn't come natural to speak to strangers.
I think that in many ways, Norway is very close to Germany, both language wise and culturally. Outside of schools, I've never heard anyone catcall someone. Like Hel said, strangers usually don't acknowledge each other at all here. In cities, it's common that people don't know their neighbors after years because people don't talk to one another unless they must. It's sad, thankfully country people are more welcoming with neighbors and strangers. But not even country people catcall. Except when they're calling their cat in for the night...


When women some places are annoyed by catcalling, it's maybe because it's too much of it. I would love to be "catcalled", but I would grow tired of it if it happened all the time. But that woman who walked 10 hours around in New York City only got catcalled enough for less than 2 minutes of footage? (If we cut out that creep who followed her several minutes.) I don't know, but 1.5 minutes worth of catcalling is not a lot for a full day of walking the streets? I could take that.

Then we can discuss the manners in wich the catcalling was done. Shouting after people is not nice.

If I wasn't so damn shy, and if I had grew up in a different culture were it was common to speak to strangers, then I would probably have catcalled. I value nice looking women and I would like to complement them, but it does NOT mean I view them as a piece of meat.

Some days ago, I saw a woman with an incredible nice butt in a store. I so wanted to say, "Hi, you have a very nice butt, do you work out a lot?", but I didn't. Would this have been offensive??
Since so many compliments are deemed offensive, I find it safest to never say a thing. Not that it matters since I'm too shy anyway.

I get the opposite - I get what I would call "dogcalling", when men go out of their way to call you fat and ugly. Happens a lot and I'm used to it now to the point of barely registering it.

That's so incredibly rude! Doesn't it make you want to use a pitchfork? Because that's what they truly deserve. And what they said to you isn't even true. You looked really pretty on the few pics I've seen of you.

I have always heard said how very polite the Brits are. You always say "thank you" and "please". Almost as polite as the Japanese, and no one can be more polite than them.

 

[wolf trail]

Catcalling.....just another reason why mankind is a big failure....
i hate it so much that i like to yell right now, the situation is even worse in middle east.
As a guy , i think no healthy minded man would do this kind of stuff cz it is far too nasty for a human being to do.
lets just hope someday people will realize...

To anyone who has been insulted in streets, leave it there they don't deserve your attention.

 

[Hel]

Hel, may I ask roughly how old you were eight years ago? If that number begins with a '1' and not a '2' then yes, you were quite possibly a young girl when that happened.

And if not, then I apologize - I can hardly be expected to know your age if it's not listed. I merely thought you were a teenager at the time of the events you described.

No need to apologise, Femme! When I said I appreciate it, I meant it. :eager: The guardian of the underworld is millions of years old, it's quite possible that by now the exact number starts with 1 or 2 again, but I'm not counting anymore. I'd love to be young again. Sorry if I came across as annoyed or something.

Now that I think of it, it was actually more like eleven years ago. Around 2004, I think. Damn! My old brain just can't calculate anymore. (Not that it was ever really good at it in the first place...)

Catcalling, what a funny word! Are women cats?

I have no idea what you're talking about right meow.

When women some places are annoyed by catcalling, it's maybe because it's too much of it. I would love to be "catcalled", but I would grow tired of it if it happened all the time.

That might just be it. It rarely happens where I live, neither to me nor to people I know. A friend of mine who is very pretty even complains that guys never seem to notice her, but I'm sure they do, they just don't say it most of the time. Now when I imagine being catcalled all the time, I would probably find it quite annoying too, and start thinking those guys have nothing better to do.