Final Fantasy

[Deathstroke]

I was surprised that the possibly greatest RPG-franchise of all time in console-gaming didnt have a thread of its own already. Time to change that

THE HISTORY

The Final Fantasy series was created in 1987 by Hironobu Sakaguchi, who initially named the game "Final Fantasy" since he thought the game wouldnt be successful anyway and would be his last game. However the game was pretty successful and soon FF II and III followed in 1988 and 1990 respectively. Sakaguchi and his company Squaresoft started to gain recognition outside of Japan as well and for the new console generation in the early 90s, they released the next FF games for the first time not just in Japan but North America as well - the first of those being Final Fantasy IV in 1991, which became a milestone in RPG history and was the first game in the series that is considered a masterpiece. It was followed in 1992 by Final Fantasy V (which was also the last FF game directed by Sakaguchi) before they released Final Fantasy VI in 1994.

FF VI was the international breakthrough and is widely considered one of the greatest games ever made - it also remains the most highly-rated FF game in the series (Critics Score: 97 %) and was the final (main) game in the series on a Nintendo console and is seen as the end (and pinnacle) of the 2D sprites era. It was the first FF game with a highly praised storyline and multi-layered characters which was considered to be cinematic in scope. Until this day it is one of the most beloved RPGs of all time, with many old school fans of the series naming it as their favorite FF.

For the new generation of gaming, Squaresoft left Nintendo and moved the series to the new Sony Playstation, releasing the next games for the first time not only in Japan and North America, but in Europe as well.

The first game in this new generation was Final Fantasy VII, released in 1997. It became the biggest and most groundbreaking game of the entire RPG-genre and a record-breaking milestone. It has been called "the Beatles of RPGs" and rightfully so. FF VII was the first game which had CG movie scenes, polygon characters, 3D animations and pre-rendered CG backgrounds (which would become a staple of the series afterwards) and especially the characters and storyline were incredibly complex, dark and cinematic and unprecedented in its time, creating an almost movie-esque feeling. FF VII was also the first game in the series that took place in a modern setting instead of the traditional fairy tale setting of previous FFs. FF VII broke multiple sales records and went on to sale over 10 million units (making it still the highest selling game in the series until this day). It made Final Fantasy an international Mega-Franchise and Squaresoft one of the most successful game developers of all time. The enormous popularity and success of FF VII later led to several spin-off games (Crisis Core, Before the Crisis, Dirge of Cerberus) as well as a CG-film sequel (Advent Children), forming the "Compilation of Final Fantasy VII" which greatly enhanced and expanded the FF VII universe.

It was followed by Final Fantasy VIII in 1999, which heavily improved upon FF VII´s graphics and animations and at its time was seen as a technological wonder. It sold over 8 million units, making it one of the most successful RPGs of all time. The first Playstation era of FF was then concluded with Final Fantasy IX in 2000, which was also the last game that series-creator Sakaguchi actively worked on (and that he called the most perfect representation of his original vision for Final Fantasy). FF IX can be considered a "blast from the past" since it deliberately presented a setting, tone and design which paid tribute to the NIntendo-era (FF I-VI) of the series, while utilizing the technological style of FF VII and VIII, even improving further on their graphics and animation. While FF IX didnt sell as well as VII and VIII (the fairy tale design was something that turned off some of the newer fans who hadnt played the series prior to FF VII), it received great critical acclaim and is widely considered as the greatest of the classic games in the series.

Squaresoft moved the series to Sonys new Playstation 2 for the new generation, which allowed them to do several things with the series that were not possible before. As a result of that, the next game Final Fantasy X which was released in 2001 became a groundbreaking milestone for the RPG-genre and the FF-series which greatly redefined the style of the franchise and RPGs in general much like FF VII had done in 1997. FF X began a more cinematic era for the series and was the first game to feature 3D graphics, voice acting, animated in-game cutscenes to tell the story and much more realistic animations and CG movie scenes. The game was very successful (selling more than 6 million units) and received great critical acclaim, especially for its technological advances and powerful storytelling. It is widely regarded as one of the best PS2-games of all time and along with FF VI and VII its probably the most beloved game of the entire series. FF X´s female protagonist was recently voted the most popular FF-character in Japan. The success and popularity of FF X led to a sequel (FF X-2) in 2003, which had never been done before. In December 2013 a HD Remaster version of both FF X and X-2 with completely remastered graphics and revamped interface, music and charactermodels was released for Playstation 3. In North America and Europe it will be released in March 2014. much like the original game, the HD remaster received great critical praise in Japan.

FF X was also the last game in the series that Series-Creator Sakaguchi was attached to. After Sakaguchis CG-movie "Final Fantasy: The Spirits within" bombed immensely and nearly bankrupted the entire company, Sakaguchi took responsibility and left Squaresoft. Square had to merge with rival Enix Games to avoid bankruptcy, leading to the founding of the new company Square Enix (or in short SE)

The first new main title in the series , produced by Square Enix was Final Fantasy XI, which was released in 2002. Unlike previous games, FF XI was actually an Online-RPG. While that decision met with heavy criticism, FF XI (which wasnt released on Playstation 2 outside of Japan) nontheless was a great success and created a large online-community for years.

It wasnt until 2006 that SE released their first offline-FF game in the main series, which was Final Fantasy XII. FF XII was the final game of the series for the PS2 (and also the last Sony-exclusive FF game), which also was the first game in the series where Series-Composer Nobuo Uematsu didnt compose the music. FF XII was a critical and commercial success (Selling over 5 Million Units) but drew some heavy criticism from Fans who complained about the unusually bland characters, political storyline, the music (which wasnt nearly as powerful as Uematsus music for previous games) and the heavily changed battle system. Nontheless a sequel was released in 2007 (Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings) but only for Nintendo DS (A complete 3D remake for Final Fantasy III was later also released for DS)

In December 2009, SE released the first FF game for the new HD generation of consoles which was Final Fantasy XIII. FF XIII was the first (offline) game in the series released on a Microsoft console as well, though it was released on Playstation 3 first. While the enormously impressive graphics, the voice acting, presentation and the new dynamic battle system were highly praised, the game drew heavy criticism for its linearity, lack of player freedom and simplified gameplay mechanics. Until this day there is probably no other game that has divided the Fans of Final Fantasy so much like FF XIII. The game was nontheless extremely successful (selling nearly 7 Million Units) and spawned two more sequels (Final Fantasy XIII-2 in 2012 and Lightning Returns in 2013), making it the first FF game which was expanded into a trilogy of games. FF XIII´s main character Claire "Lightning" Farron has become one of the most iconic RPG-characters of all time and especially in Japan she is incredibly popular (Having been voted the most popular female FF-character in 2012 and the 2nd most popular character in 2013)

In 2010, SE released the second Online-RPG in the series, Final Fantasy XIV. However the game was very unfinished and was universally panned by fans and critics alike and later described as the greatest disaster in the history of the series. Square Enix reacted with drastic consequences, firing the entire development staff and having a completely new staff heavily revamp and overhaul the game. It was re-released in 2013 under the name Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn in a highly revamped version. This new version was met with very positive reviews and became a commercial success as well with many calling it the best FF game by Square Enix yet.

Square Enix had also been working on an ambitious spin-off game known as Final Fantasy Versus XIII, a dark action-RPG which was announced in 2006. After many delays and several problems during development it was decided to turn Versus XIII into Final Fantasy XV and release it for next-gen consoles (PS4 and X-Box One) instead. This makes FF XV by far the FF game with the longest development time and also the most ambitious FF game ever made. The game is expected to be released in 2015.


THE GAMES

1987: Final Fantasy (NES, Japan only)

1988: Final Fantasy II (NES, Japan only)

1990: Final Fantasy III (NES, Japan only)

1991: Final Fantasy IV (SNES, not in Europe)

1992: Final Fantasy V (SNES, not in Europe)

1994: Final Fantasy VI (SNES, not in Europe)

1997: Final Fantasy VII (PSOne)

1999: Final Fantasy VIII (PSOne)

2000: Final Fantasy IX (PSOne)

2001: Final Fantasy X (PS2)

2002: Final Fantasy XI (PS2 in Japan only and PC)

2003: Final Fantasy X-2 (PS2)

2004: Crisis Core - Final Fantasy VII (PSP)

2006: Final Fantasy XII (PS2)

2007: Final Fantasy VII - Dirge of Cerberus (PS2)
Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings (NDS)

2009: Final Fantasy XIII (PS3)

2010: Final Fantasy XIV Original Version (PC)

2012: Final Fantasy XIII-2 (PS3 and 360)

2013: Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII (PS3 and 360)
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn (PS3 and PC)
Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD (PS3 and PS Vita)

2015: Final Fantasy XV (PS4 and XBO)



THE SUCCESS

What follows is a Top 5 List of the critically and commercially most successful Games in the series:

CRITICAL

1. Final Fantasy VI 97 %

2. Final Fantasy IX 94 %

3. Final Fantasy VII 92 %

4. Final Fantasy X 92 %

5. Final Fantasy XII 92 %


COMMERCIAL

1. Final Fantasy VII 10 Million

2. Final Fantasy VIII 8 Million

3. Final Fantasy X 6.7 Million

4. Final Fantasy XIII 6.6 Million

5. Final Fantasy IX 5 Million

 

[blivvy]

I love the FF games. It's my favourite rpg series. Can't wait for the X/X-2 HD Remaster

I know most people love FF VII but X is my favourite, followed closely by XII (awesome battle system). XIII-2 was fairly decent too.

 

[Deathstroke]

Yeah Final Fantasy is my most favorite gaming series of all time (the only one I love more than RE). I came to the series in 1999 with FF VII and FF VIII and have been absolute hardcore FF fan ever since.

While FF VII is indeed incredibly beloved (and rightfully so - its still the most complex and epic FF world and story with the most iconic characters), actually its FF VI which is probably the most popular game of the series. Its also by far the most highly rated game (97 % !!) by critics in the series and many consider it as probably the best RPG game ever made. FF VI also has the most playable characters - 14 !! That game is just legendary. Every FF fan should have played it.

Its also interesting that if people talk about the PSOne era they always name FF VII first because it was so groundbreaking back then and completely redefined the genre forever. But Final Fantasy IX is actually higher rated (94 %) by critics and technologically is far more advanced then FF VII. I am always torn between VII and IX as well. I mean VII has by far the best story and mythology and characters and all that but FF IX is such a beautiful, perfect game in every way that represents the perfect vision of what Final Fantasy was supposed to be when it was created. And there are so many tributes and references to FF I-VI in that game, its really a giant loveletter to those old 2D sprites-era days of the series.

But for me it was actually FF VIII which made me obsessed with the series. the story moved me incredibly back then and it was the first time a game felt like a movie to me. For almost two years all I could think of and talk about was FF VIII, I was utterly obsessed with this game. My love for FF VII came actually later (Today I love it more then VIII though even though VIII will always have a special nostalgic place in my heart).

I recently completed both FF VIII and IX again 100 % (including all sidequests, optional bosses, all best weapons, skills, fully maxed out characters etc.) and especially with FF VIII it a total blast from the past. Made me feel like I was back in 1999.

I have started a new FF VII - playthrough about a week ago and am currently aiming for a 100 % playthrough with this game as well (including fully maxing out characters, getting all materia, limit breaks, ultimate weapons, defeating all superbosses etc.). This time I actually watched all the videos from the Crisis Core game (which is a prequel to FF VII) first before I started FF VII and whoa this makes the experience of FF VII even way more intense and emotional if you have all that backstory about Zack, Cloud, Aerith and Sephiroth fresh in your mind. It also reminded me how incredibly epic and complex FF VII really is and in many ways that level of storytelling hasnt been in a FF game (or any game really) ever since. After completing FF VII (which is still a long way off though^^) I am gonna watch the directors Cut of the Advent Children film again to conclude the FF VII-saga.

I am not the biggest fan of FF XII though. Its a great RPG no doubt but its not a great Final Fantasy. It just never feels like a FF game to me. Wether its the bland characters (Vaan is like the worst and most boring FF protagonist ever), the music (Uematsus music from FF VI - X is lightyears better), the weird design or the battle system which rather feels like a warcraft game then a Final Fantasy. I mean the amount of content, player freedom, huge world and amazing graphics are fantastic but it just never feels like Final Fantasy to me. In many ways this game is the complete opposite of FF X. I enjoyed it for a huge and technologically perfect RPG but I never felt like in a FF game.

FF XIII on the other hand (though criticised by many) to me brought all that back which I had missed in XII but ironically was lacking all that what worked in XII. In XII you had a huge RPG with lots of content and player freedom but characters, story, music, design and battle system didnt feel like FF.

FF XIII was the exact opposite of that. The characters, story, music, design and new ATB battle system totally brought back that familiar Final Fantasy feeling but it was incredibly linear, had zero player freedom and very little content besides the main story. Its like the mirror image of FF XII.

But I really liked XIII despite its flaws. It had some really great characters (Lightning actually being one of my fav FF characters), a fascinating complex mythology and personal story, great music for the most part (especially Serahs Theme and Fabula Nova Crystallis) and a really dynamic battle system that felt like FF again and not like warcraft. And the cinematic presentation of FF XIII is probably the best of the entire series yet. The scene where the heroes attack Eden with their Eidolons or the entire Finale ranks among the best moments of the entire series for me.

FF XIII-2 was a double-edged sword. On the gameplay front it was an improvement to FF XIII in every way and you finally had great player freedom. Unfortunately the characters, music and a great deal of the story (particularly when Lightning wasnt there) was really weak and messy. I highly enjoyed the game for its freedom and gameplay and I thought the beginning and Finale were awesome but everything in between was mostly a drag story and characterwise. So XIII-2 was kind of a missed oppertunity in some ways. definitely not a bad game though.

I look forward to Lightning Returns but after reading reviews I also know it definitely has its flaws again. It sounds much like XIII-2 with amazing gameplay, open world, lots of player freedom but a rather unimpressive story. well I just hope the story doesnt drag again or becomes so messy and confusing like for many parts in XIII-2. On the plus side, Lightning (as I said one of my favorite characters) is finally the main character again (XIII-2 sorely was missing her) and the game will have a definite happy ending. And you can give her outfits from classic FF characters such as Cloud, Yuna or Aerith!! That alone will be worth the entire game to me.

But nothing and I mean nothing is as awesome as Final Fantasy X.

That game is my most favorite game of all time. I will never forget the experience when I played it for the first time. It captivated me so much that I played it for 30 hours straight before even about thinking about sleeping. It was so powerful and emotional. I LOVE LOVE LOVE Tidus and Yuna. My most favorite games couple of all time. At the end of FF X I was in tears - which had never happened to me before in a game. Not even when Aerith died in VII. It was the most powerful gaming experience I ever had and my heart and soul is in this game, its world and its characters.

But also on the gameplay side of things FF X is just perfection. the CTB battle system is as fun as its strategic, the Aeon system is the best summon system in the series, the Overdrive system is the best special attacks system in the series and the sphereboard-system to develop the characters is just fricking genius. And of course all those amazing challenges, optional stuff, superbosses - so many amazing memories.

And the music. By god what an amazing soundtrack! The To zanarkand Theme, Suteki da ne or that heart-wrenching ending theme!! So damn amazing. I am actually a huge fan of the FF music and have all the soundtrack albums, piano albums, concert albums etc. and the orchestra version of To zanarkand (which adds violins and stuff to make it even more powerful) is my favorite FF song of all time.

I also really liked FF X-2 because it really expanded the mythology, brought Tidus back and it was generally awesome to spend more time in that amazing world with my beloved Yuna.

The HD remaster is basically an absolute dream come true for me. My most favorite game of all time with newly arranged music, completely updated graphics, no pal bars and slow-downs anymore (like in the german version), modernized interface plus new content that I was never able to play before because it wasnt released outside of japan before (such as Monster hunter or Last mission in X-2). And on top of that a 30 minute audio drama with the original voice actors that sets up a new FF X sequel. This is heaven.

I only have a PS3 so its been years since I was able to play FF X. I cant wait for the Remaster. Its my absolute Game Highlight of the decade. And once I have it, I wont rest until I have completed both games 100 % and got platinum Just like 10 years ago. This is going to be awesome. 10 weeks until I will have it!

 

[Jay]

FFX HD Remake also will have the Dark Aeons, new weapons, skills, sphere grid changes, different monsters in the monster arena, and the final boss Penance that was in the International version.

 

[Deathstroke]

FFX HD Remake also will have the Dark Aeons, new weapons, skills, sphere grid changes, different monsters in the monster arena, and the final boss Penance that was in the International version.

We already had all that stuff in our version back in 2002, because the european version was identical to the international version So thats not really new stuff to me, I dont even know FF X without it (Nor could I actually imagine FF X not having the Dark Aeons, thats how I always experienced the game). We didnt get the International version of X-2 though so I am excited for that stuff

 

[Jay]

We already had all that stuff in our version back in 2002, because the european version was identical to the international version So thats not really new stuff to me, I dont even know FF X without it (Nor could I actually imagine FF X not having the Dark Aeons, thats how I always experienced the game). We didnt get the International version of X-2 though so I am excited for that stuff

Oh wow, they had them in the EU version too? I never knew. X-2 will have all the International bonuses as well. FFX music were masterpieces and the Remake is nothing less. I took a listen to the new Besaid and am amazed at how they remixed it.

 

[Deathstroke]

yeah only the NA versions didnt have the international content of FF X. The EU versions are generally identical with the international versions, the only international versions of FF games not released in Europe were FF X-2 and FF XII.

yeah FF music (especially the music by Uematsu) is really really awesome. You should check out the piano albums, the live concert albums (which feature new orchestra arrangements of the songs) and the Black Mages stuff. Thats a rockband founded by Uematsu himself and they covered several FF songs as rock/metal versions which sounds absolutely awesome. I especially love their versions of the battle themes from FF VI, the boss battle themes of FF VII and VIII, their version of Maybe I´m a Lion (VIII) or their version from Clash on the Big Bridge (V). They were also the ones who did the new version of One Winged Angel that you can hear during the battle between Cloud and Sephiroth in the Advent Children movie.

I just finished Disc 1 on my current FF VII run and man, that scene with Aerith tears me into pieces every time. Damn you, Sephiroth I am gonna kick your ass all the way back to Jenova for this.

 

[Spikeyroxas]

I only played ff7
But I really enjoyed it and played it again last year
I got about half way through ff8 but lost my save and never bothered to get back on it.

Currently
I am looking forward to ff15 because the battle system looks like a more adult version on kingdom hearts (my fav game series) and I will definatly be getting it for that reason.

 

[Jay]

yeah only the NA versions didnt have the international content of FF X. The EU versions are generally identical with the international versions, the only international versions of FF games not released in Europe were FF X-2 and FF XII.

yeah FF music (especially the music by Uematsu) is really really awesome. You should check out the piano albums, the live concert albums (which feature new orchestra arrangements of the songs) and the Black Mages stuff. Thats a rockband founded by Uematsu himself and they covered several FF songs as rock/metal versions which sounds absolutely awesome. I especially love their versions of the battle themes from FF VI, the boss battle themes of FF VII and VIII, their version of Maybe I´m a Lion (VIII) or their version from Clash on the Big Bridge (V). They were also the ones who did the new version of One Winged Angel that you can hear during the battle between Cloud and Sephiroth in the Advent Children movie.

I just finished Disc 1 on my current FF VII run and man, that scene with Aerith tears me into pieces every time. Damn you, Sephiroth I am gonna kick your ass all the way back to Jenova for this.

Ah ok. Here in the US we never got it until they released the INTL Version. I'm glad I waited to get it because now I can experience everything in the remake. Way ahead of ya. I listened to all the albums and seen the orchestras. Almost ended up going to one. Anything Nobuo touches turns into music gold.

As for FFVII, its over hyped, and this is coming from a big fan of the series. To put it simply, FF7 loses its steam once Aeries dies. I can't explain it, but everything after seems like a boring chore. Up until that point its amazing. I still played it to death dozens of times and it definitely revolutionized what games can be. Its just not the best in the series as everyone seems to think. FF6, 9, and 10 had way better story telling and a better cast.

I only played ff7
But I really enjoyed it and played it again last year
I got about half way through ff8 but lost my save and never bothered to get back on it.

Currently
I am looking forward to ff15 because the battle system looks like a more adult version on kingdom hearts (my fav game series) and I will definatly be getting it for that reason.

 

[Spikeyroxas]

It looks soooooo good
The music
The graphics
The creature designs
Battle system

Hopefully it has a great story too

 

[Deathstroke]

I only played ff7
But I really enjoyed it and played it again last year
I got about half way through ff8 but lost my save and never bothered to get back on it.

You definitely need to play FF IX and X as well. Two of the greatest games ever made. You are seriously and utterly missing out if you dont play them. Trust me, you´ll thank me afterwards.

As for FFVII, its over hyped, and this is coming from a big fan of the series. To put it simply, FF7 loses its steam once Aeries dies. I can't explain it, but everything after seems like a boring chore. Up until that point its amazing. I still played it to death dozens of times and it definitely revolutionized what games can be. Its just not the best in the series as everyone seems to think. FF6, 9, and 10 had way better story telling and a better cast.

This is where we clash cause my opinion could not be more opposite. What I am saying next doesnt have to apply to you so dont take it the wrong way, its purely my own opinion as a 15 year-long FF fan:

FF VII is definitely not overhyped but so beloved for a reason. It remains the most complex, dark and epic Final Fantasy-universe there is (especially in regards to the mythology and backstory). While its graphics and animations are pretty outdated even for PSOne standards by now, its story, tone, gameplay remain utterly supreme. I dont get why you think that after Aeriths death, the game loses steam, its quite the opposite - thats when the game really gains emotional depht and momentum. My opinion is completely opposite to yours. I feel that up until you reach the Temple of the Ancient and subsequently Forgotten City that the game feels a tad formulaic (going after Sephiroth from one place to the next) and the beginning in Midgar (before reaching the HQ) is a very dragging slow burn. Until you reach the Temple to me the game is merely just setting things up and positions the key players and sets up the relationships and mysteries but once you reach the temple and once Aerith dies (the name Aeris is a translation error - her name is Aerith) - thats when the game really takes off. Wether its the stuff in the Northern Crater, the rise of the Weapons, the reveal of Clouds true past, the reveals about Zack and Hojo, the complex revelations about Sephiroth controlling Jenova etc. All of that is incredibly complex, epic, really BIG stuff that takes to the game to a far more higher level then it was before the death of Aerith. So I really dont get how you would claim that the the events before Aeriths death are actually more compelling or exciting then what comes afterwards. To me Aeriths death marks the point where the game really begins to soar higher than ever.

Also I vehemently disagree with the claim that the cast of FF VII is less interesting. FF VII has by far the most iconic characters in the entire franchise. Cloud, Zack, Tifa, Aerith, Sephiroth, Vincent....They are at the top of any "Best of FF" characters list and they certainly are among the most popular ones. especially when it comes to the cast, design, mythology and music FF VII is almost unparalleled. Thats why the game is so beloved. There is no "overhype" there in my opinion. The hype is completely justified.

And while FF X still is and will always be my most favorite game and FF-universe of all time and while it most certainly has the most emotional power and the greatest gameplay - Final Fantasy VII is without a doubt an absolute masterpiece and the richest, most complex and iconic Final Fantasy-universe ever created. The vast majority of fans praise the story, characters, music and tone of this game for a reason. Whenever people talk about the best FF game, FF VII is almost always named first. Media Outlets have called it the "Beatles of RPGs", Square Enix themselves have stated that FF VII is by far the most beloved FF game until this day and the one that people always mention to them. All of this is for a reason. A game doesnt become this iconic, this popular and this successful (10 Million Units for only one platform!!) because it is "overhyped".

I am sorry, I mean no offense but I am one of the many many FF VII-lovers (Even though FF X is my favorite) who take VII´s legacy and reputation very seriously, so I am afraid I really have to vehemently disagree with your statements regarding FF VII. This game deserves every ounce of praise it gets from fans and critics.

But then again thats just my personal opinion and feeling about this game. I dont know how long you have been a FF fan so it could also just be that while I came to the series with VII, you didnt and therefore I am just emotionally much more attached to the experience of the game. On my part there is definitely much personal emotion and attachement involved that has lasted for over 15 years. So maybe that makes it a whole different experience for me then it does for you.

 

[blivvy]

FFX HD Remake also will have the Dark Aeons, new weapons, skills, sphere grid changes, different monsters in the monster arena, and the final boss Penance that was in the International version.

Oh that mofo Penance... How the hell do you beat that thing? I could never do it.

It's still an epic battle though.

 

[Deathstroke]

Penance? You want a strategy (besides using Zanmatou of course^^)? You got it^^

The best party for this is Tidus, Wakka and Yuna. You definitely need Blitz Ace and Attack-S for Wakka. All of your Characters should have completed most of (if not all) of the sphereboard and have around 40.000 HP . Strength and magic power should be 255 as well as defense and magic defense. High luck values around 100 or more are also recommended. especially your speed values should be at 255 as well. Speed is of the essence in this fight. In fact most of your values (except for luck) should be maxed at 255

You best have Ribbon for all characters and the celestial weapons for all of them fully activated. As Auto abilities I highly recommend Auto-haste, Auto protect, Auto shell and of course Auto-Phoenix. As always have the overdrive gauges of your Aeons completely filled before heading into this battle as well as the overdrive gauges of your characters.

Penance has 12 Million HP (as well as stats values of 255 on almost all stats), which makes this a really long fight. Yuna has MP 1 so you dont have to fear for her MP but you should definitely prepare to use a Twin stars or Three stars for Wakka and Tidus since their MP will sooner or later run out.

It is VITAL to kill his arms first or he will use Judgment Day and wipe you out instantly. Each of the arms has 500.000 HP. Hit them with EVERYTHING you have (particularly overdrives) as quick as possible. Once the arms are taken care of you gotta work on his torso (12 million HP). I recommend Quick Hits because as I said time is of the essence. Eventually his arms will revive and you have to take them out first again. For healing best use Healing waters since it heals everyones HP at once which again saves valuable time. Use wakkas Attack-S and Tidus Blitz Ace whenever possible but also keep an eye on the timetable. Its of no use if you use an Overdrive and afterwards Penance attacks 3 times, which could end the battle. You dont want that happening after you already fought him for half an hour. Strategy is important here. Overdrives are most powerful but they also come with a longer recovery time (which is why its so important to have auto haste and speed values of 255) and that can be deadly.

 

[Jay]

Oh that mofo Penance... How the hell do you beat that thing? I could never do it.

It's still an epic battle though.

Yeah, what Deathstroke said. It'll be a long battle, but before that you have to do some sphere farming to max your stats before even attempting. Have everyone's best weapons, equipment, and abilities. Its guides all over and videos you can search to see different strategies to beat him. I'm looking forward to it in the remake.

I dont get why you think that after Aeriths death, the game loses steam, its quite the opposite - thats when the game really gains emotional depht and momentum.

That's where we'll be at a stand still. What I enjoyed most was the first disc and the build up to everything. The slums, Don Corneo, Shinra's pillar assault, that moment you see Cloud standing before you finally infiltrate Shinra HQ, battling through and fighting Rufus at the top with the epic motorcycle escape, and it goes on. You played it, so I don't have to say every detail. When Aeris died the game felt like it lost something special, which it did. A lot of times now I'll play FF7 and stop once I get to the Forgotten City. I can't explain it. Maybe its because I played it too much when I was younger which is why I get bored there afterwards with a few exceptions on some later parts. Btw I know the Aeris thing was translation typo and its suppose to be Aerith. I like Aeris more though.

Also I vehemently disagree with the claim that the cast of FF VII is less interesting. FF VII has by far the most iconic characters in the entire franchise. Cloud, Zack, Tifa, Aerith, Sephiroth, Vincent....They are at the top of any "Best of FF" characters list and they certainly are among the most popular ones. especially when it comes to the cast, design, mythology and music FF VII is almost unparalleled. Thats why the game is so beloved. There is no "overhype" there in my opinion. The hype is completely justified.

Yeah, of course the FF7 cast is iconic. I never meant they weren't. Think about this. Compare them to FF9 or 10. You've played FF9. For example you know how Zidane and Steiner relationship started and ended. Also notice how Tidus was a clueless arrogant kid, but at the end changed into a man. Its because overall I think they had better character development than anyone of FF7. No one in FF7 I connected to on the same level or had as much growth. Which is why I said 9 and 10 have the better cast. Maybe that's just me though, but think about that before you reply. Which group gave you more emotions, 7, vs 9 and 10.

And while FF X still is and will always be my most favorite game and FF-universe of all time and while it most certainly has the most emotional power and the greatest gameplay - Final Fantasy VII is without a doubt an absolute masterpiece and the richest, most complex and iconic Final Fantasy-universe ever created. The vast majority of fans praise the story, characters, music and tone of this game for a reason. Whenever people talk about the best FF game, FF VII is almost always named first. Media Outlets have called it the "Beatles of RPGs", Square Enix themselves have stated that FF VII is by far the most beloved FF game until this day and the one that people always mention to them. All of this is for a reason. A game doesnt become this iconic, this popular and this successful (10 Million Units for only one platform!!) because it is "overhyped".

Let me say again that I'm not taking anything away from FF7. I know its worshiped as being the grand FF of all because of everything its done. Story, music, gameplay, all of it was made amazingly. Millions sold and is considered the king of RPGS. It is because it did it first and has the right to that title. I love it and its the one I've played the most out of all of them. Still that being said its not perfect. Ten years ago if you asked me what is the best FF I would've said 7, but now I would say 9 or 10 being INCHES! behind. Me maturing, getting older, and looking back knowing how a game should be is why I can see 7's flaws. Not only me, but many other fans have said this or thought the same. They'll tell you while it is great, it isn't the best. I'm not though and I'm gonna keep this short. Your own statement on what you said about FF9 and 10 to Roxas is proof.

But then again thats just my personal opinion and feeling about this game. I dont know how long you have been a FF fan so it could also just be that while I came to the series with VII, you didnt and therefore I am just emotionally much more attached to the experience of the game. On my part there is definitely much personal emotion and attachement involved that has lasted for over 15 years. So maybe that makes it a whole different experience for me then it does for you.

I've been a long time FF fan nearly from the beginning and grew up with it. My first was FF4 back on the SNES. I was about five at the time, but had no idea how to play it. A couple years later I see my bro playing FF7 on our PS. He's the reason I got into it. I knew from that point on there was something about this series I liked. I got about the same amount of history being over 15 years. I've played every one of the main series, even the GBA/DS ports and remakes. So yeah, hopefully you got where I was coming from. I'm not trying to change your mind. FF7 is a great game and holds the title of being the best RPG forever. If you think its the best in the series that's cool. I would say 9 is. Compare it to others in the series you've played. You will see its flaws and why people say it isn't.

 

[Deathstroke]

FF7 is a great game and holds the title of being the best RPG forever. If you think its the best in the series that's cool. I would say 9 is. Compare it to others in the series you've played. You will see its flaws and why people say it isn't.

Its a bit irritating how you dont seem to read my posts properly. I have stated in great detail how and why FF X is my most favorite game of all time and yet you keep saying that VII is my favorite just because I vehemently defend it. I mean why are you saiyng VII is my favorite if I said many times that FF X actually is my favorite and the greatest and most powerful gaming experience I ever had? Man this kinda stuff really irritates me. If people just dont listen (or read) properly before they answer and twist everything to their liking. I cant have rational discussions this way.

And yes FF VII has its flaws and if you had read my last post properly you would have noticed that I noted some of them. I never said FF VII is perfect. But I am saying its not overhyped either and is deserving of its praise. For me Disc 1 is really just the build up to a much bigger, greater and more powerful story and actually is dragging in places. For me the game takes off once you reach Forgotten City. So yeah I guess on that subject we´re in a stalemate and just have to accept each others feelings on the matter.

As for the characters - yes its true that you dont have much character development with many of them. There is some major development with Cloud and Tifa as characters though. But FF VII doesnt actually need character development in order to have a brilliant and compelling story. Clouds development and the others having their own stories to deal with (while not necessarily making them grow into different characters) really is enough and suits the story. Its a very specific type of story, one that isnt about growing of the characters (Unlike VIII or X) - except for Cloud who in my opinion grows immensely throughout the story from failed Shinra soldier to a hero of true strength and goes on a very emotional journey from the death of Zack, his emotional bitterness to his love for Aerith and his caring for the world. Definite growth there.

Of course the characters of FF X are more emotional, especially Yuna and Tidus are more emotional then the entire cast of VII combined. Because its a very different type of story. You cant just compare this directly because its a very different universe with a very different story and therefore very different types of characters are needed. Isnt this also what makes Final Fantasy so great in the first place? That you have these different universes, each being unique on its own? Characters are not like each other (and therefore shouldnt be compares) because they belong to very different types of stories and universes. Its like comparing apples to bananas really. FF X will always be the most powerful and emotional to me. Because its a very emotional type of story and that heart is the core of it. But FF VII is an an entirely different kind of story and world. Its darker, grittier. Its emotional too but in a different way. Its also more complex, more epic and is really more about life and death and spiritual mythology.

And FF IX is an ENTIRELY different thing as well. the world, story, tone, setting, characters and even the music could not be any more different from FF VII. Comparing those two games is absolutely pointless because they are so vastly different in almost every way. I LOVE FF IX, its one of my most favorite games of all time and technologically its way better than VII and much more refined. But thats really as much as you can compare them. Comparing the characters of VII and IX to me is silly. Sure there is more character development there, more in depht exploration of them and more emotional context but thats because it suits that particular story and universe. Characters like that would feel BEYOND out of place and wrong in the universe and story of VII. There is no "better" there, just different. Different types of characters with different types of stories, fitting into different types of universes. It makes sense that the characters are portrayed and explored in IX the way they are. But that type of exploration and storytelling wouldnt make much sense for the universe of VII and the story its about.

And FF IX with its deliberate throwback to the Nintendo-era of Final Fantasy is just a completely different thing then what you have in VII. Comparing them is just utterly senseless to me.

But to get the whole "Favorite FF" thing out of the way, here is my definitive list of my favorite FF games:

1. Final Fantasy X
2. Final Fantasy VII
3. Final Fantasy IX
4. Final Fantasy VIII
5. Final Fantasy XIII
6. Final Fantasy VI
7. Final Fantasy X-2
8. Final Fantasy IV
9. Final Fantasy XIII-2
10. Final Fantasy XII

 

[Jay]

Its a bit irritating how you dont seem to read my posts properly. I have stated in great detail how and why FF X is my most favorite game of all time and yet you keep saying that VII is my favorite just because I vehemently defend it. I mean why are you saiyng VII is my favorite if I said many times that FF X actually is my favorite and the greatest and most powerful gaming experience I ever had? Man this kinda stuff really irritates me. If people just dont listen (or read) properly before they answer and twist everything to their liking. I cant have rational discussions this way.

And yes FF VII has its flaws and if you had read my last post properly you would have noticed that I noted some of them. I never said FF VII is perfect. But I am saying its not overhyped either and is deserving of its praise. For me Disc 1 is really just the build up to a much bigger, greater and more powerful story and actually is dragging in places. For me the game takes off once you reach Forgotten City. So yeah I guess on that subject we´re in a stalemate and just have to accept each others feelings on the matter.

As for the characters - yes its true that you dont have much character development with many of them. There is some major development with Cloud and Tifa as characters though. But FF VII doesnt actually need character development in order to have a brilliant and compelling story. Clouds development and the others having their own stories to deal with (while not necessarily making them grow into different characters) really is enough and suits the story. Its a very specific type of story, one that isnt about growing of the characters (Unlike VIII or X) - except for Cloud who in my opinion grows immensely throughout the story from failed Shinra soldier to a hero of true strength and goes on a very emotional journey from the death of Zack, his emotional bitterness to his love for Aerith and his caring for the world. Definite growth there.

Of course the characters of FF X are more emotional, especially Yuna and Tidus are more emotional then the entire cast of VII combined. Because its a very different type of story. You cant just compare this directly because its a very different universe with a very different story and therefore very different types of characters are needed. Isnt this also what makes Final Fantasy so great in the first place? That you have these different universes, each being unique on its own? Characters are not like each other (and therefore shouldnt be compares) because they belong to very different types of stories and universes. Its like comparing apples to bananas really. FF X will always be the most powerful and emotional to me. Because its a very emotional type of story and that heart is the core of it. But FF VII is an an entirely different kind of story and world. Its darker, grittier. Its emotional too but in a different way. Its also more complex, more epic and is really more about life and death and spiritual mythology.

And FF IX is an ENTIRELY different thing as well. the world, story, tone, setting, characters and even the music could not be any more different from FF VII. Comparing those two games is absolutely pointless because they are so vastly different in almost every way. I LOVE FF IX, its one of my most favorite games of all time and technologically its way better than VII and much more refined. But thats really as much as you can compare them. Comparing the characters of VII and IX to me is silly. Sure there is more character development there, more in depht exploration of them and more emotional context but thats because it suits that particular story and universe. Characters like that would feel BEYOND out of place and wrong in the universe and story of VII. There is no "better" there, just different. Different types of characters with different types of stories, fitting into different types of universes. It makes sense that the characters are portrayed and explored in IX the way they are. But that type of exploration and storytelling wouldnt make much sense for the universe of VII and the story its about.

And FF IX with its deliberate throwback to the Nintendo-era of Final Fantasy is just a completely different thing then what you have in VII. Comparing them is just utterly senseless to me.

But to get the whole "Favorite FF" thing out of the way, here is my definitive list of my favorite FF games:

1. Final Fantasy X
2. Final Fantasy VII
3. Final Fantasy IX
4. Final Fantasy VIII
5. Final Fantasy XIII
6. Final Fantasy VI
7. Final Fantasy X-2
8. Final Fantasy IV
9. Final Fantasy XIII-2
10. Final Fantasy XII

I saw everything you said and didn't try to twist it around. I never said it was your favorite, but the way you came off made me think it was. My fault if you thought I was. I said it deserves all its praise. I just don't think its the best in series is all. We both agree on that. Everything else you said I somewhat agree with as well. You have to look at each as their own work of art. Though not calling one better than another is somewhat impossible lol. I agree with some of the order on your list, but man I didn't like VIII. I tried three times to get into it, but never could.

 

[Deathstroke]

Sry didnt mean to be harsh or anything.

Well ironically it was VIII which made me fell in love with the series. I had played VII before but only briefly before I played VIII. And VIII really was the game that made me a fan. Playing it I felt like I was playing a movie and the game was so cinematic (for its time) and emotional. I loved the characters and of course the graphics were miraculous in its time. And I loved the music so much that I taped it with a tape recorder while playing haha. VIII always evokes such great memories for me.

I especially love the gameplay of VIII, which is quite complex (much more then in other FF games) and gives you so many options and possibilities. The first time I played the game I didnt really quite understood its complexities yet and ended up having immense trouble with bosses like Seifer and Edea. And eventually when facing Adel, I wasnt able to defeat her. I didnt collect all GF and didnt have the right junctions and abilities and that can make things ultra hard. The gameplay of VIII really rewards you if you fully exploit it - then the game becomes probably the easiest in the whole series. But if you dont exploit it then the game can be ultra hard. I really like that. Today I know all the little secrets and ways to maximize everything (using the rare cards to already get the most powerful spells early on, resulting in increased stats that are so high that I take out bosses with 1 or 2 hits) and by the end of Disc 1 my characters are already so powerful that every enemy is killed with one hit. But thats why I love that gameplay - depending on how you utilize it you can be seriously overpowered (which is just too much fun) or underpowered. I even know some people who dont use junctions at all just to challenge themselves though thats a bit too extreme for my taste (Just like the people who play FF IX or X without ever levelling up or using the sphereboard - that wouldnt be really fun to me).

Also FF VIII has by far the most addictive minigame, which is the card game Triple Triad. That is more fun then poker and its so much fun to collect all those rare cards (Not to mention that this is the key to getting powerful spells early on and powering up your characters as early as possible). Uematsus music is fantastic too.

FF VIII in many ways was sort of a precursor to FF X and the first FF who really focused on love and emotion as well as growing up. It was pretty much the first coming of age story in a FF and was very character driven. I have never heard of someone who loves FF for as long as you do and could never get into VIII. For me thats the game that embodied Final Fantasy for me for years. The first really emotional and cinematic game I ever played. There is no game I was more fascinated and in love with from 1999 - 2001.

But in contrast I feel the same way about FF I, II and V that you feel about VIII. I just cant get into those games, they feel like a joyless chore and I just cant invest myself emotionally into the world and characters. I am generally not a big fan of the NES/SNES era of Final Fantasy. I got into FF with VII and VIII and those game had really completely redefined the style of the series. The graphics style of the Nintendo-FFs is one of my biggest problems. This 2D sprites stuff really isnt my thing and feels so silly to me in a FF game. It severely limits the presentation and storytelling and those tiny, cute sprites-models of the characters make it very hard for me to attach myself to them and to invest myself emotionally into it.

I should add that I do not come from the background of RPG. In fact I dont play any other RPGs but Final Fantasy. They just dont appeal to me at all. I always say that while I am a hardcore FF-fan, I am certainly no RPG-fan in general. Final Fantasy just has something really special (I used to call that the "Final Fantasy Style") that affects me emotionally and appeals to me so much. But I tried other RPGs that were recommended to me and none of them could evoke that same feeling.

And what I love most in an FF game (and thats really what made me love them in the first place when I came to the series with VII and VIII) is the cinematic presentation, the feeling of true emotions and playing a giant movie. And that really only started with VII and then developed from there while FF I-VI were more classic and pure RPGs who didnt focus as much on presentation and a cinematic way of storytelling because they didnt really have the technology for it. And I am sure that if I had played FF IV, V or VI first I would probably feel different about it (or maybe they wouldnt have appealed to me at all and I would never have become a fan of the series) but I came to it with VII and VIII and it was really their style and movie-esque presentation (as well as those much more realistic and elaborate graphics then what you had before VII) that made me love it. I mean the backgrounds, the animations, the summon sequences, the battle effects, animation of the characters - all that made me be in utter awe back then.

And then going back to the 2D sprites-FFs was very sobering for me. I did like IV and VI though because they had a great story and characters. The graphics style and sprites animation still didnt excite me but those games really delivered great stories and the music was pretty amazing too. I mean Terras Theme or the battle themes in VI (especially in the orchestra and Black Mages versions) are still among the best FF music of all time to me. they had a cool gameplay style too. That made up for the enormously underwhelming graphics style and presentation but I could still never invest myself emotionally into them or the characters as much as I did with VII and every FF after that.

And FF I, II and V are the games that I just couldnt get into at all. Because they dont even have the good story and characters that IV and VI had. They are just bland, boring, underwhelming games that I couldnt enjoy at all. Maybe to veteran RPG fans they are classic jewels but well I am not a RPG fan in general so I cant feel that same appreciation. I like IV and VI for their good story and music but my passion and love for this series really only starts with VII. The FFs of the Nintendo-era are just really very different kinds of games in my opinion. Which is why I think remaking IV or VI with modern graphics and animation would be a really great thing for someone like me. Their stories are really great and would be deserving of a more cinematic presentation. And I am sure if they had been released on PSOne or PS2 (you know as actual remakes for those consoles not ports) they would be right up there with VII - IX for me.

Also something I´d like to add about the issue of comparing the games: I think its okay to compare certain aspects of the games. You can certainly compare things like quality of the story, gameplay, music or really anything that applies to all of them. I am just saying people shouldnt compare things that are meant to be unique to each game like the type of universe, character or story.

 

[AgentZero]

I really like the story behind FF. But I can not stand the auto battle. It gets so boring, and also the reason I don't like the XCOM series.

 

[Deathstroke]

Which FF are you talking about? XIII? There 14 games in the main series alone, each with a different universe and story (and battle system). Sounds like you only know XIII....

 

[AgentZero]

I was Talking XIII. I figured they all had Auto Battle though, and they all follow the same storyline don't they?