Why RE4 Changed The Series (A Historical Perspective and Argument)

Turo602

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#81
Rain, I agree with you for the most part. The atmosphere and game play of the older games was amazing and what brought most of us in to the series. RE4 is NOT the same as the other games.

But I think my point is that Capcom knew that HAD to change the elements of the series of the series would have died. People were angry and saying Capcom should just end the series after RE0 saying they had lost the magic and were attempting to capitalize on the older games without making significant changes to the series. Their options were produce RE4 as we know it or potentially let the series fall apart. No more Resident Evils. Of course, we don't know what would've happened in they created another Survival Horror entry and I suppose different changes could have been made ESPECIALLY about the story.

But I will never agree that RE4 is not a great game. In 2004, it was the best game on the market whether or not anyone agrees it has the elements to be a Resident Evil game.
Again, considering the amount of people who played the game, which were a small fraction of Gamecube owners, which was already the poorest selling console that gen, saying the series would have died is a moot point. RE4 could have been the best survival horror game of all time, and it would have still sold millions after its eventual PS2 port. Great game or not, Capcom goofed the series.
 

Albertwesker959

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#82
Again, considering the amount of people who played the game, which were a small fraction of Gamecube owners, which was already the poorest selling console that gen, saying the series would have died is a moot point. RE4 could have been the best survival horror game of all time, and it would have still sold millions after its eventual PS2 port. Great game or not, Capcom goofed the series.
re 4 5 and 6 are the most selled game in the series, I seriously doubt that the series would have had the same amount of success in sale if the series didn't evolve itself... Resident evil 4 sold million of copies because it was masterpiece game who changed the industries, everyone talked about that game, it became a legend as soon as it was released, and belive it or not it's all thank to the new direction it went whit 4...

I cannot say that I would have preferred a different game than the re 4 we have since that game deliver so much exciting moment that it will be on the top 10 of best game ever made for another 100 years, because the new gameplay mechanic that resident evil 4 made changed the game industry forever and this change will influence the industry for the rest of the century...
Theu only retreat I have whit this series are the change made to resident evil 5 and Tha abomination of re 6
 
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Turo602

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#83
re 4 5 and 6 are the most selled game in the series, I seriously doubt that the series would have had the same amount of success in sale if the series didn't evolve itself... Resident evil 4 sold million of copies because it was masterpiece game who changed the industries, everyone talked about that game, it became a legend as soon as it was released, and belive it or not it's all thank to the new direction it went whit 4...

I cannot say that I would have preferred a different game than the re 4 we have since that game deliver so much exciting moment that it will be on the top 10 of best game ever made for another 100 years, because the new gameplay mechanic that resident evil 4 made changed the game industry forever and this change will influence the industry for the rest of the century...
Theu only retreat I have whit this series are the change made to resident evil 5 and Tha abomination of re 6
Many people had buyers remorse with Resident Evil 4, 5, and 6. And even with Resident Evil 6, it reviewed poorly for a triple A game. Resident Evil is gonna be a successful franchise no matter what, and those games are proof of that. The name is what sells it. Being a masterpiece has nothing to do with its sales. It's not even the best selling game in the franchise. And as I stated before, the over the shoulder camera perspective was present even in 3.5 so that doesn't justify the game turning out the way it did.
 
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Albertwesker959

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#84
Many people had buyers remorse with Resident Evil 4, 5, and 6. And even with Resident Evil 6, it reviewed poorly for a triple A game. Resident Evil is gonna be a successful franchise no matter what, and those games are proof of that. The name is what sells it. Being a masterpiece has nothing to do with its sales. It's not even the best selling game in the franchise. And as I stated before, the over the shoulder camera perspective was present even in 3.5 so that doesn't justify the game turning out the way it did.
Resident evil 4 is the third best selling game in the franchise, the second is re 6 and the first is 5, guess why? Because they are the sequel to the legendary re 4...
The over the shoulder was present in Re 3.5 yeah, but the gameplay mechanic were also clumsy compare to the re 4 we have...
 

Rain611

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#85
I'm going to respond to some of your point...

A) this is not true since resident evil 4 had claustrophic area, and sometimes deliver the same tansion as its predecessors like all the first half of the game when you had to hide from the chainsaw and you had to spare ammo against the ganado, the castle part is for much time claustrophobic, like the battle against Verdugo di ghiaccio, I feel cornered there... And there are many other part like this in the game...

B) the ammo conservation is different In re 4 than it was in the other re game but its obviously still there since you had to manage you inventory well to survive battle and use the right strategy against certain enemy... Also it never happens to me in re 2 to have zero ammo since the original re 2 had planty of ammo that I could probably kill all the creature I encountered...

C) save room are still there in resident evil 4 whit music and typer write... To be fair it's more present here than in Re 2 remake or re 7 since this two game had auto save and you don't need to save manually while in re 4 you had, because if you close it will not regai from last checkpoint... Saving whit ink ribbon was an obsolet feature, and I appreciate that they take it out, Infact neither re 7 o re 2 remake had this feature, only in the extreme mode... Also it was code veronica who first introduced checkpoint in a certain degree not Re 5...

D and E) the series need to evolve, it couldn't always revolve around zombies, umbrella and raccon city, I like the plaga since it's terrific and misteryus... Also just a little mention but umbrella it's present in re 4 since wesker goal is to revive umbrella whit him in charge...

Resident evil 2 remake didn't take the old mechanic back since it was re 7 who did that, and re 2 remake only taked the gameplay from re 7 whit third person camera instead of first person
I understand what you're saying but I stick by what I said. We clearly had different experiences while playing which is to be expected from person to person.

Edit: I didn't see this post:

Resident evil 4 is the third best selling game in the franchise, the second is re 6 and the first is 5, guess why? Because they are the sequel to the legendary re 4...
The over the shoulder was present in Re 3.5 yeah, but the gameplay mechanic were also clumsy compare to the re 4 we have...
RE4 was the 3rd best in the franchise, in my opinion, because of the anticipation for a new game with better graphics and a new combat system. It was also the first RE game experience for many people, which lead into 5 and 6. It is not uncommon to speak with people who's first game was RE4 and they LOVE 5 and 6 but they hate the earlier games because of the tank controls and bad graphics.

Simply put, I think the success of 4, 5 and 6 were due to circumstances and the fortuitous inclusion of a new fanbase.
 

Turo602

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#86
Resident evil 4 is the third best selling game in the franchise, the second is re 6 and the first is 5, guess why? Because they are the sequel to the legendary re 4...
The over the shoulder was present in Re 3.5 yeah, but the gameplay mechanic were also clumsy compare to the re 4 we have...
Third best selling Resident Evil game? According to who? Definitely not Capcom. Resident Evil 7 is the third best selling game in the series currently. Resident Evil 4 doesn't even crack the top 5 either... Your logic is wrong. Masterpiece games don't guarentee sales. If that were the case, Super Metroid, a game much more influential than Resident Evil 4 would be one of the best selling games of all time. And no, the camera perspective wasn't clumsy. It worked the same when you aim.
 
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Albertwesker959

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#87
Third best selling Resident Evil game? According to who? Definitely not Capcom. Resident Evil 7 is the third best selling game in the series currently. Resident Evil 4 doesn't even crack the top 5 either... Your logic is wrong. Masterpiece games don't guarentee sales. If that were the case, Super Metroid, a game much more influential than Resident Evil 4 would be one of the best selling games of all time. And no, the camera perspective wasn't clumsy. It worked the same when you aim.
Dude just relax, every time someone write something different that what you say you go on fire...
Resident evil 4 is the third best selling game in the series, take a look hear to se for yourself : https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Best_selling_Capcom_games
Also if you go to the official Capcom platinum site, you can see for yourself that redident evil 4 is the third resident evil game in term of release, you had to find all the re 4 for the different platform than to the summation and you will have the result
For me The camera was clumsy in re 3.5 since it was fixed when you walk but than change when you aim, so yes it was clumsy, it's better in the re 4 we have now...
Don't upset so easy man, just sharing

Editi: gta sand Andreas, metal gear solid, 007 goldeneye, call of duty 4, God of War prince of persia, the last of us, every major game that redifined the industry and were masterpiece had superb sale, super metroid was just and unfortunate one and didnt sale that well.... But if you want to take only one game into account to support you theory while there are other 100 That deliver the opposite than ok
 
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Turo602

The King of Kings
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#88
Dude just relax, every time someone write something different that what you say you go on fire...
Resident evil 4 is the third best selling game in the series, take a look hear to se for yourself : https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Best_selling_Capcom_games
Also if you go to the official Capcom platinum site, you can see for yourself that redident evil 4 is the third resident evil game in term of release, you had to find all the re 4 for the different platform than to the summation and you will have the result
For me The camera was clumsy in re 3.5 since it was fixed when you walk but than change when you aim, so yes it was clumsy, it's better in the re 4 we have now...
Don't upset so easy man, just sharing
I think the problem is that you read my posts with a preconceived notion of my tone. I'm perfectly calm. And it's still not the third best selling Resident Evil game. There's a reason Capcom lists different versions of each game as a separate game. Look at the initial releases, even if you combine the PS2 and Gamecube numbers, Resident Evil 4 falls short in comparison to the others. Those games also don't have the benefit of being released on the same amount of platforms as Resident Evil 4 nor have they been out nearly as long, yet outsold Resident Evil 4's initial releases. The camera wasn't "clumsy", it was just a mixture of both. The mechanic itself is identical and would have been carried out to other games regardless of how it was implemented. It doesn't have to be a steady over the shoulder game the entire time for reviewers to rave over the the over the shoulder aiming, which is the important takeaway. Not that it switches from fixed to over the shoulder.

Editi: gta sand Andreas, metal gear solid, 007 goldeneye, call of duty 4, God of War prince of persia, the last of us, every major game that redifined the industry and were masterpiece had superb sale, super metroid was just and unfortunate one and didnt sale that well.... But if you want to take only one game into account to support you theory while there are other 100 That deliver the opposite than ok
When your list includes Call of Duty, God of War, and The Last of Us, it only proves my point as none of those games have anywhere near the same adulation and influence on the gaming industry as either Super Metroid or Resident Evil 4, yet completely outsold them. Critical praise and popularity doesn't put any of those games on the same level as Resident Evil 4 or Super Metroid. I also wouldn't put any stock in critical reception considering they're the ones who gave games like The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, GTA IV, and The Last of Us 10/10s. Their opinions aren't special.
 
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Albertwesker959

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#89
I think the problem is that you read my posts with a preconceived notion of my tone. I'm perfectly calm. And it's still not the third best selling Resident Evil game. There's a reason Capcom lists different versions of each game as a separate game. Look at the initial releases, even if you combine the PS2 and Gamecube numbers, Resident Evil 4 falls short in comparison to the others. Those games also don't have the benefit of being released on the same amount of platforms as Resident Evil 4 nor have they been out nearly as long, yet outsold Resident Evil 4's initial releases. The camera wasn't "clumsy", it was just a mixture of both. The mechanic itself is identical and would have been carried out to other games regardless of how it was implemented. It doesn't have to be a steady over the shoulder game the entire time for reviewers to rave over the the over the shoulder aiming, which is the important takeaway. Not that it switches from fixed to over the shoulder.



When your list includes Call of Duty, God of War, and The Last of Us, it only proves my point as none of those games have anywhere near the same adulation and influence on the gaming industry as either Super Metroid or Resident Evil 4, yet completely outsold them. Critical praise and popularity doesn't put any of those games on the same level as Resident Evil 4 or Super Metroid. I also wouldn't put any stock in critical reception considering they're the ones who gave games like The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, GTA IV, and The Last of Us 10/10s. Their opinions aren't special.
Yet, resident evil 4 is stil the third best selling residente evil game if you combine all the copies it sold as of today on any platform...

You argument is invalid, since resident evil 4 had selled 8 million copies or more and falls on third place... You don't look at initial release to decide how a game had selled, but you look the whole release as of today.... Because if we go by your reasoning we should only count the initial release for every re game but you may forgot that every re game had alway been re released, than we should take out of the account the million of copies the resident evil 5 gold edition sales and its later 2 million copies on ps4 release, We should take out all the re release of resident evil 1, directors cut, dualshock version ecc, all the other re release of re 2, all the re release of re 3 ecc... Every re game had a re release so that list I mentioned combined all the release of all the resident evil game as of now, if we take out all of this the other resident evil will fall behind... So by your reasoning we should only count initial release but it's not how it work since Capcom also count the other release during years for the other resident evil game...

The camera was clumsy, since you had to switch to two different perspective and this would have only confused the game mechanic, it's better having the whole game on third person That switching between camera, it was ridicolous...
For me the camera was clumsy for you it wasn't just different opinion dude relax, you are too upsetted, it's just differ point of view...

The game I listed before have the same adulation as Re 4 when they came out...
Call of duty 4 modern warfare changed the game industries since it change fps game forever, and this change are still present in the industry...
God of was critically acclaimed when released and adulated as the best hack and slash to date, the last of us did to since its method of telling the story had influence many other game later and movie...
Also i cited other game dude not just those 3, don't mention only what accomodare you o that you can prove your point...

The critics opinion aren't special? What opinion are special than? The one from people who don't understand a **** about videogame? The fan? I personally take into account review opinion more than random and casual people opinion...
I still can't understand why you are so upsetted whit reviewer... Because they didn t share you exact opinion on games?
 
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Turo602

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#90
Yet, resident evil 4 is stil the third best selling residente evil game if you combine all the copies it sold as of today on any platform...

You argument is invalid, since resident evil 4 had selled 8 million copies or more and falls on third place... You don't look at initial release to decide how a game had selled, but you look the whole release as of today.... Because if we go by your reasoning we should only count the initial release for every re game but you may forgot that every re game had alway been re released, than we should take out of the account the million of copies the resident evil 5 gold edition sales and its later 2 million copies on ps4 release, We should take out all the re release of resident evil 1, directors cut, dualshock version ecc, all the other re release of re 2, all the re release of re 3 ecc... Every re game had a re release so that list I mentioned combined all the release of all the resident evil game as of now, if we take out all of this the other resident evil will fall behind... So by your reasoning we should only count initial release but it's not how it work since Capcom also count the other release during years for the other resident evil game...
It's also been out far longer than Resident Evil 5, 6, 7, and REmake 2 and has been ported to many more consoles. Yet each of those games has outpaced Resident Evil 4 in a shorter amount of time and on less platforms. Regardless, different releases are not being factored here, so no, I didn't forget anything. According to Capcom's very own list, Resident Evil 5 has sold 7.5 million units, making it the second best selling Capcom game of all time. Its Gold Edition is not included in this number as that sold only 2 million units. Resident Evil 2's nearly 5 million units is counting only its original Playstation release. Not the N64 or Gamecube ports. So yes, if you want more accurate numbers, look at the original release of the games and not subsequent releases that Capcom deems different enough to be listed as a different version of the game.

The camera was clumsy, since you had to switch to two different perspective and this would have only confused the game mechanic, it's better having the whole game on third person That switching between camera, it was ridicolous...

For me the camera was clumsy for you it wasn't just different opinion dude relax, you are too upsetted, it's just differ point of view...
It's not clumsy. It's just not your preference. There's a huge difference. Games like Metal Gear Solid and The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time have done the same thing to no confusion or backlash. However, that's totally irrelevant anyway because that's not the point I'm making.

Also, don't tell me to relax after I told you I'm not upset because now it looks like you're pushing buttons and I thought we were past this bullsh*t. Let's not have a repeat of last time, for both of our sakes. I haven't been hostile, I haven't attacked you, so can we please keep this civil?

The game I listed before have the same adulation as Re 4 when they came out...

Call of duty 4 modern warfare changed the game industries since it change fps game forever, and this change are still present in the industry...

God of was critically acclaimed when released and adulated as the best hack and slash to date, the last of us did to since its method of telling the story had influence many other game later and movie...

Also i cited other game dude not just those 3, don't mention only what you what so that you can prove your point...
Critical acclaim and popularity is not the same as changing the industry. None of those games have revolutionized gaming the way Resident Evil 4 or Super Metroid have, which is why their impacts remain relevant til this day. God of War didn't do anything Devil May Cry didn't already do nor did it even do it better. Whatever credit you're trying to give to Call of Duty 4 belongs to Halo as well. I mentioned what was relevant to my point, which still holds true. Critical success doesn't always equate to financial success. Resident Evil 4 being a "masterpiece" had nothing to do with its financial success. It was simply ported to a console with a larger user base, most of which probably had a Playstation 1 and were fans of the series but couldn't play REmake and 0 because they weren't available on PS2. A similar growth of 2 million units can be seen with the HD remasters of 0 and REmake just like the Resident Evil 4 PS2 port, showing that there was indeed interest outside of the Gamecube for these games.

The critics opinion aren't special? What opinion are special than? The one from people who don't understand a **** about videogame? The fan? I personally take into account review opinion more than random and casual people opinion...

I still can't understand why you are so upsetted whit reviewer... Because they didn t share you exact opinion on game?
I'm not gonna tell you who to listen to, nor am I gonna tell you to listen to me. But if all you take into account is the word of critics, then you're gonna end up having a very limited scope of knowledge. You act like reviewers aren't just people who can be biased, be fans, or not know jack sh*t about gaming. My only suggestion to you is to take into account as many sources and opinions as you can, bias ones, positive ones, negative ones, anything. Only you can determine what you feel is right based on a wide range of information. I don't go to any guy to model my opinions after. I choose to learn from everyone and everything so I can be critical of the things I enjoy and have better discussions and form stronger opinions because of it.
 

Albertwesker959

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#91
It's also been out far longer than Resident Evil 5, 6, 7, and REmake 2 and has been ported to many more consoles. Yet each of those games has outpaced Resident Evil 4 in a shorter amount of time and on less platforms. Regardless, different releases are not being factored here, so no, I didn't forget anything. According to Capcom's very own list, Resident Evil 5 has sold 7.5 million units, making it the second best selling Capcom game of all time. Its Gold Edition is not included in this number as that sold only 2 million units. Resident Evil 2's nearly 5 million units is counting only its original Playstation release. Not the N64 or Gamecube ports. So yes, if you want more accurate numbers, look at the original release of the games and not subsequent releases that Capcom deems different enough to be listed as a different version of the game.



It's not clumsy. It's just not your preference. There's a huge difference. Games like Metal Gear Solid and The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time have done the same thing to no confusion or backlash. However, that's totally irrelevant anyway because that's not the point I'm making.

Also, don't tell me to relax after I told you I'm not upset because now it looks like you're pushing buttons and I thought we were past this bullsh*t. Let's not have a repeat of last time, for both of our sakes. I haven't been hostile, I haven't attacked you, so can we please keep this civil?



Critical acclaim and popularity is not the same as changing the industry. None of those games have revolutionized gaming the way Resident Evil 4 or Super Metroid have, which is why their impacts remain relevant til this day. God of War didn't do anything Devil May Cry didn't already do nor did it even do it better. Whatever credit you're trying to give to Call of Duty 4 belongs to Halo as well. I mentioned what was relevant to my point, which still holds true. Critical success doesn't always equate to financial success. Resident Evil 4 being a "masterpiece" had nothing to do with its financial success. It was simply ported to a console with a larger user base, most of which probably had a Playstation 1 and were fans of the series but couldn't play REmake and 0 because they weren't available on PS2. A similar growth of 2 million units can be seen with the HD remasters of 0 and REmake just like the Resident Evil 4 PS2 port, showing that there was indeed interest outside of the Gamecube for these games.



I'm not gonna tell you who to listen to, nor am I gonna tell you to listen to me. But if all you take into account is the word of critics, then you're gonna end up having a very limited scope of knowledge. You act like reviewers aren't just people who can be biased, be fans, or not know jack sh*t about gaming. My only suggestion to you is to take into account as many sources and opinions as you can, bias ones, positive ones, negative ones, anything. Only you can determine what you feel is right based on a wide range of information. I don't go to any guy to model my opinions after. I choose to learn from everyone and everything so I can be critical of the things I enjoy and have better discussions and form stronger opinions because of it.
Obviously i watch many source and me myself test game to say if they are good or not but obviously I read review to also get more detail about game, both in term of graphic, gameplay ecc... I read eurogamer For example many time since doesn't only deliver detailed and God review but also analize the game to it's core thank to the digital foundry... But onestly I don't read random people and other random sources on the internet because they are the one who have limited scope on games...

Resident evil 4 is still the third best resident evil game in term of sales, if you click on the link you posted and scroll on the other pages you find all the version of every resident evil, just add all the various version of resident evil 4 and you will have 8 million copies sold for resident evil 4, putting him in third place in term of sale... Its irrelevant if it was ported many more time of it was release for many more years compared to other re game or if the other manage to get to 5 million copies before re 4, You had to count all the platform and later release, you cannot only count the first release... It's not how it work... If you count every release you had 8 million copies, putting him in third place...

I'll give you an example:
Avenger endgame avatar and titanic are at the top 3 as the movie whit more profit of all time, and every of this movie had a re release who added more money, endgame needed to be rerelased in theater in order to surpass avatar and becoming the highest grossing film of all time, but by your way of seeing it it should still be in second place since you only count the first release...

For me the camera is clumsy for you is not, ok...

Call of duty revolutioned the first persone shooter, putting the modern warfare in it, an giving a cinematic touch to this game, and putting many scripted event into the game, something That was also copied by resident evil 6 and I must say unfortunately...
Also you only cited one game, super metroid, while I cited many other that confirmed the theory That critical acclaim is releatd to financial success... Obviously there were game who were critically acclaimed but didn't sell well but they are in minority, or there are game like resident evil 6 who have mixed review but still had succes
 
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UniqTeas

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#92
I do not think I will be changing anyone's opinion here. haha. Especially Turo or Rain.

But here is another small factoid about RE4's popularity that doesn't just have to do with sales: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/191629-resident-evil-7-biohazard/76140456

This person has combined all of the GOTY wins that RE4 had in 2005. Just about everything. Yes, this was including the opinions of a whole new fan base, but a lot of these publications have/had been doing this for years. They know games. And still gave the best GOTY to RE4.

One argument presented here was that RE4 was judged by non-Resident Evil critics. But that argument doesn't make sense. The argument is that these critics who play and critique video games FOR A LIVING don't understand the RE series when most likely (a majority) have probably played every installation. Game critics become game critics because they are fans of the industry. These aren't stuffy old men in rooms saying, "Hmmm! Resident Evil! Pish! Never heard of it! Yet, I like RE4 only!" lol.

Anyway - here is the Metacritic for the original Gamecube edition of RE4 for your general perusal: https://www.metacritic.com/game/gamecube/resident-evil-4

Note that a majority of critics AND fans say that this game was a necessary addition to the series because the series was not looking it's best at the time.
 

Turo602

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#93
I do not think I will be changing anyone's opinion here. haha. Especially Turo or Rain.

But here is another small factoid about RE4's popularity that doesn't just have to do with sales: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/191629-resident-evil-7-biohazard/76140456

This person has combined all of the GOTY wins that RE4 had in 2005. Just about everything. Yes, this was including the opinions of a whole new fan base, but a lot of these publications have/had been doing this for years. They know games. And still gave the best GOTY to RE4.

One argument presented here was that RE4 was judged by non-Resident Evil critics. But that argument doesn't make sense. The argument is that these critics who play and critique video games FOR A LIVING don't understand the RE series when most likely (a majority) have probably played every installation. Game critics become game critics because they are fans of the industry. These aren't stuffy old men in rooms saying, "Hmmm! Resident Evil! Pish! Never heard of it! Yet, I like RE4 only!" lol.

Anyway - here is the Metacritic for the original Gamecube edition of RE4 for your general perusal: https://www.metacritic.com/game/gamecube/resident-evil-4

Note that a majority of critics AND fans say that this game was a necessary addition to the series because the series was not looking it's best at the time.
It's not a critic's job to understand the series of a game they're reviewing nor does doing it for a living make them a credible source. They're judging the game as a game, as has been stated here many times. Regardless, many of us are already aware of the accolades the game has earned and would agree that the game deserves them. However, none of that justifies the notion that RE4 had to turn out the way it did for reasons that have been stated all over this thread.
 
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Albertwesker959

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#94
We should just admit that resident evil 4 Taked the series back to global popularity something That residente evil remake and resident evil 0 weren't able to do... So it need to turn in different direction in one way or anothrr
It's not a critic's job to understand the series of a game they're reviewing nor does doing it for a living make them a credible source. They're judging the game as a game, as has been stated here many times. Regardless, many of us are already aware of the accolades the game has earned and would agree that the game deserves them. However, none of that justifies the notion that RE4 had to turn out the way it did for reasons that have been stated all over this thread.
We get it that you didn't want re 4 to turn the way it did... But other people love it as it is, and are glade the way turn out to be... And I am one of those... Just different opinion and feeling...
 

UniqTeas

G Virus Experiment
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#95
It's not a critic's job to understand the series of a game they're reviewing nor does doing it for a living make them a credible source. They're judging the game as a game, as has been stated here many times. Regardless, many of us are already aware of the accolades the game has earned and would agree that the game deserves them. However, none of that justifies the notion that RE4 had to turn out the way it did for reasons that have been stated all over this thread.
My argument is that people in this industry are going to have played many games in the series when they got to RE4. If you look at IGN for instance (an easy target considering they're still around) - you will find that the RE4 review was done by a man named Matt Casamassina who had also reviewed RE2 and RE Archives: Resident Evil. I am sure that he had played more than that too considering he was a co-founder of IGN. This may not add weight to his credentials, but he still thought RE4 was a massive success at the time giving it a 9.8 realizing that Capcom made the changes that fans and critics wanted alike. Yes, anyone can argue that the changes were too drastic. But your argument is with history. Not anyone else here.
 

Albertwesker959

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1,088
#96
My argument is that people in this industry are going to have played many games in the series when they got to RE4. If you look at IGN for instance (an easy target considering they're still around) - you will find that the RE4 review was done by a man named Matt Casamassina who had also reviewed RE2 and RE Archives: Resident Evil. I am sure that he had played more than that too considering he was a co-founder of IGN. This may not add weight to his credentials, but he still thought RE4 was a massive success at the time giving it a 9.8 realizing that Capcom made the changes that fans and critics wanted alike. Yes, anyone can argue that the changes were too drastic. But your argument is with history. Not anyone else here.
There are many other reviewer who played the other re game and reviewed re 4 and praised it
 

Turo602

The King of Kings
1,844
1,598
13,771
#97
My argument is that people in this industry are going to have played many games in the series when they got to RE4. If you look at IGN for instance (an easy target considering they're still around) - you will find that the RE4 review was done by a man named Matt Casamassina who had also reviewed RE2 and RE Archives: Resident Evil. I am sure that he had played more than that too considering he was a co-founder of IGN. This may not add weight to his credentials, but he still thought RE4 was a massive success at the time giving it a 9.8 realizing that Capcom made the changes that fans and critics wanted alike. Yes, anyone can argue that the changes were too drastic. But your argument is with history. Not anyone else here.
My argument is with the notion that Resident Evil 4 was somehow a financial success due to critical acclaim, and because of that, the game HAD to go the route it did because critics (who are RE experts apparently) loved it and fans wanted it.

I know the history, your takeaway of it is just not accurate at all since you're making it seem as if critics echoed the fan opinion of the game, when 1.) Resident Evil 4 introduced lots of brand new fans, 2.) the game was and still is divisive among fans, and 3.) the metacritic scores you posted show that users liked REmake more than they liked RE4 whereas critics very much preferred RE4.

And while REmake wasn't as critically acclaimed as RE4 (which is understandable since RE4 is the more groundbreaking one of the two), it was still acclaimed by fans and critics alike, and at the time, the highest rated game in the series. Yet, it sold nearly as much as Resident Evil 4 on the Gamecube, but was considered a commercial failure while Resident Evil 4 wasn't. Which was due to the additional 2 million RE4 was able to sell on the extremely successful PS2, while REmake was stuck on the unpopular Gamecube.

Resident Evil 0, while criticized for being more of the same was largely inconsequential to the future of the series, especially since it started development on the N64 and REmake was well, a remake. But just because critics and fans started to gripe about the series and wanted some kind of change, doesn't mean they were happy with the change they got, while critics are still gonna praise the game for being groundbreaking and expertly crafted because their job doesn't require them to know and analyze or love the series despite maybe being familiar with a few of the titles.

The decision for Resident Evil 4 to change up the formula was already decided long before the final build we have today, so regardless of people griping about the games, a change was coming. REmake's failure which Capcom is only to blame for, just happened to influence RE4 in the direction we ended up with. That doesn't mean it had to be this way for the series to thrive.
 
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UniqTeas

G Virus Experiment
276
120
4,778
#98
I don't think that anyone can claim that these critics are not fans of the series. It is also hard to say that they definitely are. But, we can be assured, you get the title of Game Critic at IGN by being knowledgeable of gaming in general. By the time RE4 came out, a majority of these people had surely played most of the series. This is one case where a majority of fans were with the critics - saying that we needed something new to the series. I do not think that is inaccurate. I was a fan at the time and I was on forums for gaming and Resident Evil at the time and it was the majority of people who said that they wanted to move in a new direction.

Now, I won't argue that RE4 was necessarily the way they needed to go. But at the time - myself included, the critics, the industry, and the fans loved what we got and were happy with the new result. Yes, we got a lot of new fans when RE4 came out due to the overwhelming praise. But we have evidence of the time period showing that the long time fans were happy as well.

Was I happy that the game began with Leon saying that Umbrella fell due to legal constraints? No - but by the end - I was amazed by what Capcom gave me. And while I didn't have as much love for RE5 or RE6 (which are both great games as well) - I feel validated in saying that RE4 saved the franchise. I don't know if we'd have any games now if that didn't work out how it did.
 

Turo602

The King of Kings
1,844
1,598
13,771
#99
I don't think that anyone can claim that these critics are not fans of the series. It is also hard to say that they definitely are. But, we can be assured, you get the title of Game Critic at IGN by being knowledgeable of gaming in general. By the time RE4 came out, a majority of these people had surely played most of the series. This is one case where a majority of fans were with the critics - saying that we needed something new to the series. I do not think that is inaccurate. I was a fan at the time and I was on forums for gaming and Resident Evil at the time and it was the majority of people who said that they wanted to move in a new direction.

Now, I won't argue that RE4 was necessarily the way they needed to go. But at the time - myself included, the critics, the industry, and the fans loved what we got and were happy with the new result. Yes, we got a lot of new fans when RE4 came out due to the overwhelming praise. But we have evidence of the time period showing that the long time fans were happy as well.

Was I happy that the game began with Leon saying that Umbrella fell due to legal constraints? No - but by the end - I was amazed by what Capcom gave me. And while I didn't have as much love for RE5 or RE6 (which are both great games as well) - I feel validated in saying that RE4 saved the franchise. I don't know if we'd have any games now if that didn't work out how it did.
Having a general knowledge of video games doesn't make critics special. At the end of the day, they're all people and they could be just as blind, bias, objective, credible, or misinformed as anyone else. I'm not trying to discredit reviewers, but to take anything they say as undeniable fact or proof of anything is completely foolish if you yourself can't rationalize, back it up, or justify it. If we want to talk about IGN, then let's discuss how they were completely misinformed about Resident Evil 2 REmake's 2nd run and had to make changes to their review after being called out. So not only did they mess up and not fully play the game, they still somehow put a review out without having truly beaten the game. Video game reviewers have time constraints when they review games so that they can get them out in a timely manner, so why should their review be considered more valid than someone who actually played the game much longer than they did before writing or making a video about it on the internet? Because they have a job title? Filip Miucin is proof that just because you work at IGN and are labeled a "critic," that you're still just as human and flawed as anyone else.

You also can't claim that the majority of fans were happy with the change without any solid evidence. As far as I know, the fanbase was split, still is, but the newcomers who would go on to populate the series sure as hell loved it. So unless you did some kind of consensus at the time, your experience on message boards isn't evidence considering I've witnessed quite the opposite and seen lots of mixed opinions.

And yes, Resident Evil 4 did save the franchise, but the game itself cannot be credited with that based purely on the direction it took. It just happened to be ported to another console, granting it more exposure the others weren't allowed.
 
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