Whose time in Raccoon City was harder: Jill or Leon/Claire

Zacmac90

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#1
Since both Resident Evil 2 and 3 are intertwined with each other, Ive always wondered between Jill Valentine and Leon Kennedy/Claire Redfield whose journey through Raccoon City was worse?

Also, did Leon/Claire get out of the city first? Cuz I think the city got nuked just as Jill had made her escape if I recall correctly?
 

Flipqy42

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#2
Well. I'd say Leon and Claire did, since Jill had experienced the mansion and knew what to expect. Add in the mysterious Ada Wong and William Birkin hunting his own daughter and you've got a tough night compared to incompetent UBCS soldiers and Nemesis.

Yes, they did. They arrived the night of Sept. 29th and escaped by the morning of the 30th. Jill escaped by sunrise on Oct. 1st as the city was bombed.
 

Zacmac90

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#3
Not to mention Mr.X and to lesser degrees Annette Birkin and Chief Irons.

However, I disagree with one word: NEMESIS. While Mr.X and William Burkin were certainly dangerous in their own rights, I feel Nemesis was a much worse threat since not only did it pursue her relentlessly throughout an entire city but was capable of using human weapons to prevent her from escaping the city prematurely but almost turned her with the T-virus. Also, Leon and Claire thou seperated were able to keep in contact via radio while Jill was alone since Brad was already a walker by the time she left the R.P.D station until she met Carlos.

Amazing how a rookie cop and a 19 yr old with a child can escape a zombie infested city within a day while it took an experienced S.T.A.R.S member three days to get out
 

Venomous Oddball

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#6
They went underground to escape, right? been so long since I played Re 2
Yup.
I mean, they didn't have it easy, but things weren't blocked off for them, they had the convenience of the underground way out of the city. For Jill, the doors were locked/blocked off and she had to go through the destroyed city, which was a maze at that point. Though with Nemesis chasing her, maybe outdoors was safer since it was a bigger area.
 
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Zacmac90

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#7
And like I said before, Leon and Claire were able to keep in touch with radios which worked in their favor, until Jill ran into Carlos who she wasnt exactly thrilled of meeting at first due to who he was deployed by, she had no one to help her since Brad was killed right in front of her and zombified and Mikhail was hurt and became a human bomb to buy her some time.
 
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#8
Jill had a harder time. You people are talking about how experienced she is after Spencer Mansion, but you're overlooking the fact said experience was a NIGHTMARE: she had to survive mostly alone in a labyrinthic environment full of impossible creatures. And that's not taking into account the fear of being contaminated and the shock of seeing almost all of her comrades die in horrible ways.

We cannot even start to realize how much PTSD you get when going through such a trial.

So my theory is she was not "trained" and "prepared" by the Arklay Incident as much as she was "fragilized".

We also have to take the context into account: Jill LIVES in Raccoon City. Leon and Claire are just arriving in town, but for Jill, it's HER city, it's HER home, it's HER friends (and potentially family, lovers, etc) getting killed in a zombie invasion. It's HER daily environment getting reduced to some kind of improbable war zone.

During her journey, she also gets to see one of her comrade die atrociously, his head impaled in a disturbingly phallic way, and she's relentlessly hunted down and then contaminated by the creature responsible. Yeah, you're forgetting this about the main enemies of the characters: Claire and Leon weren't followed by William Birkin or Mister X, while Jill is Nemesis' DIRECT TARGET.
 

Zacmac90

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#9
Jill had a harder time. You people are talking about how experienced she is after Spencer Mansion, but you're overlooking the fact said experience was a NIGHTMARE: she had to survive mostly alone in a labyrinthic environment full of impossible creatures. And that's not taking into account the fear of being contaminated and the shock of seeing almost all of her comrades die in horrible ways.

We cannot even start to realize how much PTSD you get when going through such a trial.

So my theory is she was not "trained" and "prepared" by the Arklay Incident as much as she was "fragilized".

We also have to take the context into account: Jill LIVES in Raccoon City. Leon and Claire are just arriving in town, but for Jill, it's HER city, it's HER home, it's HER friends (and potentially family, lovers, etc) getting killed in a zombie invasion. It's HER daily environment getting reduced to some kind of improbable war zone.

During her journey, she also gets to see one of her comrade die atrociously, his head impaled in a disturbingly phallic way, and she's relentlessly hunted down and then contaminated by the creature responsible. Yeah, you're forgetting this about the main enemies of the characters: Claire and Leon weren't followed by William Birkin or Mister X, while Jill is Nemesis' DIRECT TARGET.
Also Mr. X and William Birkin's objectives didn't revolve around Leon or Claire at all. Sherry was the one being targeted indirectly by Mr.X because she was unknowingly in possession of the G-Virus in her locket and directly by William Birkin to infect her with an embryo. Only after Leon and Claire got involved did they become targets to the two B.O.Ws
 
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#10
True. And even if their ethics keep them from abandoning Sherry to her fate, there's a big psychological and strategic difference between helping someone who's targeted and being a target themselves. In the first scenario, they are doing it on their own, they are the HEROES. In the second one, they are the preys.
 
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#11
Agree with this entire thing; Jill definitely got the **** end of the stick when it came to Raccoon City. I mean not only did she have to go thru the mansion but two months later - definitely not enough time to even begin to recover from the first nightmarish experience - Barry and Chris LEAVE her with Brad, who she watches die at the hands of Nemesis - the second coworker/friend she's actually physically watched die - and she's left by herself as her home and friends become zombies.

Not to mention that Claire and Leon didn't know about the plan to nuke the town, Jill did. For the last part of the game Jill was acutely aware that she was on a time limit, not to escape some facility that's about to blow, but an entire town that is about to be wiped off the map.

There's also the fact that there was somewhere between twelve and twenty four hours, can't remember which, in which she's not even sure she's not going to become infected herself until Carlos gets the antidote for her.
 
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#12
Yeah, you're right, I didn't even think about that, but it's just been two months, it's so horrible.

Also during the course of the game she learns Umbrella has placed a price on his head.
 

Hel

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#13
Jill definitely got the **** end of the stick when it came to Raccoon City. I mean not only did she have to go thru the mansion but two months later - definitely not enough time to even begin to recover from the first nightmarish experience - Barry and Chris LEAVE her with Brad, who she watches die at the hands of Nemesis - the second coworker/friend she's actually physically watched die - and she's left by herself as her home and friends become zombies.

Not to mention that Claire and Leon didn't know about the plan to nuke the town, Jill did. For the last part of the game Jill was acutely aware that she was on a time limit, not to escape some facility that's about to blow, but an entire town that is about to be wiped off the map.

There's also the fact that there was somewhere between twelve and twenty four hours, can't remember which, in which she's not even sure she's not going to become infected herself until Carlos gets the antidote for her.
Agree 100%, you brought up pretty much everything I was going to say. Going through this horror for the second time and watching her home fall into ruin while being stalked by a monstrous hitman, with her only allies being Umbrella soldiers of all people, becoming infected with the T-virus and getting cured just to find out that a missile is headed for the city to destroy everything... wow! I wouldn't have blamed her if she had just given up at some point.

I wouldn't want to be in Claire's shoes either, but her ordeal seems like a "softened" version of Jill's: She also watches the downfall of the city, but it's not her own, and she learns early on that the person she's looking for is not even there anymore. She also has to get out of a place that's about to blow up, but it's "only" a single building complex, not the entire city. She's protecting someone who is the target of a BOW, but she's not the target herself, and as someone else said, that makes a huge difference. That same character also becomes infected and Claire then has to cook up the antidote, but at no point is she at risk of turning into a monster herself. If anything, Sherry's traumatic experiences could be compared to Jill's, not Claire's. And I dare say Leon had an even easier time because he was a trained cop, and got help from Ada, arguably the most capable player in the field at the time.
 

Zacmac90

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#14
Agree 100%, you brought up pretty much everything I was going to say. Going through this horror for the second time and watching her home fall into ruin while being stalked by a monstrous hitman, with her only allies being Umbrella soldiers of all people, becoming infected with the T-virus and getting cured just to find out that a missile is headed for the city to destroy everything... wow! I wouldn't have blamed her if she had just given up at some point.

I wouldn't want to be in Claire's shoes either, but her ordeal seems like a "softened" version of Jill's: She also watches the downfall of the city, but it's not her own, and she learns early on that the person she's looking for is not even there anymore. She also has to get out of a place that's about to blow up, but it's "only" a single building complex, not the entire city. She's protecting someone who is the target of a BOW, but she's not the target herself, and as someone else said, that makes a huge difference. That same character also becomes infected and Claire then has to cook up the antidote, but at no point is she at risk of turning into a monster herself. If anything, Sherry's traumatic experiences could be compared to Jill's, not Claire's. And I dare say Leon had an even easier time because he was a trained cop, and got help from Ada, arguably the most capable player in the field at the time.
If you could compare anyone's situation with Jill's it would be Leon's due to a few similarities;

Both are in the same field of work so imagine not only having the now zombified civilian population after you but your fellow officers..that prob did a number on Leon AND Jill's mental state.

Like Jill, Leon had to trust and cooperate with a person he didn't completely trust besides except Claire. So Idk if I'd say Leon's road thru Raccoon City was easier
 

Hel

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#15
Except unlike Jill, Leon didn't even know his fellow officers personally, he also never got infected, never had a target on his head, and for all he knew, Ada was just a badass civilian looking for her boyfriend, he only learned the truth moments before they parted ways, whereas Jill had every reason not to trust the Umbrella soldiers from the getgo, lost one of them and got betrayed by the other (who, unlike Ada to Leon, actually tried to kill her). I can see where you're coming, their situations may be similar, but not the "difficulty levels" of their ordeals.
 
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#16
Yeah, the levels of paranoia Jill has to face cannot be compared to Leon's and Claire's.

It's also important to note that the reverse is true: the Umbrella soldiers did NOT know if they could trust Jill, she basically joined them saying (to Carlos at least) that Umbrella was behind everything. They also don't understand how she was able to survive, suspecting a machination. The first thing Nicolai says to her is "How could a girl like you manage to survive...".

The first tramway scenes are full of this social tension and suspicion, highlighted by a musical theme reminiscent of Morricone's score for The Thing which is an obvious and important inspiration of the Biohazard series. In this 1982 movie, paranoia is a central point.

Compare the scores:


 

Ark2000

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#17
After revisiting both RE2 and Nemesis, i have to agree with you Oasis, when you're talking about RE character who went through living nightmare, then you have to mention Jill, she definitely went through a lot during her time in Raccoon City. Yes, Leon and Claire had to deal with whole lot of **** too, but Jill really had the worst luck. It's been said before but again, in her case everything just seemed to be going against her for the most part; entire city full of zombies and other monsters to fight or run through, being chased by Nemesis and fighting him over and over again, getting infected and spending that much time not knowing will she make it and who to trust... Not to mention that she spent lot more time in the city than Leon and Claire while it was keep getting worse and worse.
 
#18
i believe that Jill had worse time. just thinking about that nemesis. Mr X wasn't after Claire or Leon, maybe you see him sometimes, yet he wasn't that kind of threat that nemesis was.
Jill spent more time in Raccoon and she was aware of threat but she was waiting for help few days. i guess this is one of worse parts of Jill story. waiting to be saved... but there is no help only yourself. just she was too lucky that nemesis didn't know her address :biggrin:
and she went throw many problems more than Claire and Lean. including those two were informed how to leave the city and plan went smoothly.
but jill's evacuation was a real nightmare.
 

Jonipoon

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#19
Let's put things side by side for comparison.

Total time spent in Raccoon City during the incident
Leon/Claire: Roughly one day, give or take a few hours
Jill: 4 days, plus an additional 3-5 days trapped in her apartment for a total of around +-8 days.

Tyrants comparison
Mr X: Shows up sometimes to stalk them during one night. Walks.
Nemesis: Stalks Jill for several days. Runs faster than Jill. Carries a rocket launcher.

Worst physical damage taken
Leon: Bullet wound which made him unconscious for a couple of hours, then good to go.
Claire: Nothing too serious.
Jill: Infected with a t-Virus strain which left her unconscious for 2 days.

Emotional connection to Raccoon City
Leon/Claire: None
Jill: Home residence for several years

Last question: Did person in question watch a dear friend they'd known for several years die in front of their own eyes?
Leon/Claire: No
Jill: Yes