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What are you thinking? General Gaming Edition!

Turo602

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Maybe we're mixing SW movies here, I edited my reply to "original" movies just for clarity. I don't consider Disney has really genuinely followed the excellent canon left behind by Lucas. I mean just the fact that nit wits like Kathleen Kennedy are OK with changing Lando Calrissian from a ladies man into a perv with a fetish for robots is a prime example. I also don't consider Disney's Obi Wan-Kenobi to be a movie at all. It was barely good enough to be a mediocre TV mini series.

Suffice it to say there's been a TON of bad changes since Disney took over SW, and none of them are good, including and especially the lightsaber fight choreography, or as Disney calls them, "laser swords". :rolleyes:

At any rate, I stand behind what I said, no self respecting fan of the original canon is happy tossing anything handy at enemies. That's not true to the original Jedi canon. Thank God Respawn have the balls to do it the right way, though I have to wonder how long that will last if Disney gets their dirty mitts on the games.
Whether you like it or not, Jedi: Fallen Order IS Disney Star Wars and much of what I said applies to Lucas' Star Wars too. Their powers are very inconsistent and Jedi: Fallen Order allows you to do many things that weren't showcased in the original films. The Jedi Order is also gone by the time of Fallen Order and Kenobi so whatever "Jedi canon" says, doesn't really apply anymore. And btw, George Lucas calls them Laser Swords too and the term was spoken by Anakin in The Phantom Menace.
 

Frag Maniac

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Whether you like it or not, Jedi: Fallen Order IS Disney Star Wars and much of what I said applies to Lucas' Star Wars too. Their powers are very inconsistent and Jedi: Fallen Order allows you to do many things that weren't showcased in the original films. The Jedi Order is also gone by the time of Fallen Order and Kenobi so whatever "Jedi canon" says, doesn't really apply anymore. And btw, George Lucas calls them Laser Swords too and the term was spoken by Anakin in The Phantom Menace.

It's not really a "fallen" order though since the empire is dead set on finding and killing children capable of becoming Jedi now is it?

At any rate Disney SW is nothing at all the same as Lucas SW, and a "laser" isn't something that emits only so far. Games always have a broader scope than movies though because obviously they are much longer duration. FO however does follow traditional SW combat canon far better than anything Disney does.

"Like it or not", you'll just have to accept many of us think Control looks like a total waste of time. In fact the very words spoken above about the RT effects makes it sound like anyone praising it is speaking more of the graphics than the actual combat. To me, Control is one of Remedy's worst game concepts.
 

Turo602

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It's not really a "fallen" order though since the empire is dead set on finding and killing children capable of becoming Jedi now is it?

At any rate Disney SW is nothing at all the same as Lucas SW, and a "laser" isn't something that emits only so far. Games always have a broader scope than movies though because obviously they are much longer duration. FO however does follow traditional SW combat canon far better than anything Disney does.

"Like it or not", you'll just have to accept many of us think Control looks like a total waste of time. In fact the very words spoken above about the RT effects makes it sound like anyone praising it is speaking more of the graphics than the actual combat. To me, Control is one of Remedy's worst game concepts.
It's a fallen order... That's literally the story in Star Wars. The Jedi are killed and the rest are hunted. By the time they're being hunted, the order is no more. All the empire is doing is making sure it isn't restored by killing force sensitive children any stray Jedi might try to take under their wing and train like Obi-Wan and Yoda did with Luke.

I don't understand why you're nitpicking the word choice George Lucas went with and wrote into his film after you tried to fault Disney with it while praising Lucas... And once again, Fallen Order is still Disney Star Wars.

Also, I don't really care whether you liked Control or not. You already said you never played it and projected some strange prejudice you have against women on the game. So focusing on one person's comment about ray tracing while ignoring everything that has been said here doesn't really do you any favors. Especially since its gameplay and combat was literally praised right after that bit about ray tracing...

Regardless, we were talking about Star Wars, yet you felt the need to tell me I should accept that some people don't like Control as if that was ever being disputed and just comes off like a childish rebuttal considering all I did was make a comparison between a mechanic in 2 games.

Then you continue to tell people who have actually played the game and have stated otherwise, that its repetitive and that combat isn't varied enough despite never actually having played the game because you have intentionally avoided it because angry housewife this, woman bad that, and Star Wars better.
 

Jonipoon

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Now that I've let my playthrough of TLoU 2 sunk in a bit more, my frustration about the story choices are even worse than I thought.

Naughty Dog didn't even realize that they had a much better story buried beneath the main "Ellie vs Abby" revenge story. Throughout the entire first act I kept seeing all these clues and build-up for the Seraphites cult, reading documents, finding shrines and graffiti scattered across the streets of Seattle. There was something about this "Prophet woman" that made me feel uneasy. It was something mysterious and unexplainable that added a new layer to this fictional universe. Everytime I stumbled across a Seraphite shrine there was this ominous music playing in the background which only added to my anxiety. Seeing the prophet woman's face on posters and reading about this massive cult sent shivers down my spine, and I can't believe the devs completely wasted the massive potential surrounding the Seraphites and their Prophet. In the actual game they're still there, and while they're technically part of the story it's downgraded to what I refer to as "background noise".

Nah, the story should've been MUCH more focused on this cult and their culture. The Prophet woman should've been a central character/villain that was still alive, and a mutual threat to both Ellie and Abby - perhaps even forcing them to cooperate in order to survive. If Naughty Dog wanted to tell a story about forgiveness, forcing them to work together would be a much better way of resolving conflict and revenge. You could still have them fight, only to bond by the end.
 

Frag Maniac

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It's a fallen order... That's literally the story in Star Wars. The Jedi are killed and the rest are hunted. By the time they're being hunted, the order is no more. All the empire is doing is making sure it isn't restored by killing force sensitive children any stray Jedi might try to take under their wing and train like Obi-Wan and Yoda did with Luke.

I don't understand why you're nitpicking the word choice George Lucas went with and wrote into his film after you tried to fault Disney with it while praising Lucas... And once again, Fallen Order is still Disney Star Wars.

Also, I don't really care whether you liked Control or not. You already said you never played it and projected some strange prejudice you have against women on the game. So focusing on one person's comment about ray tracing while ignoring everything that has been said here doesn't really do you any favors. Especially since its gameplay and combat was literally praised right after that bit about ray tracing...

Regardless, we were talking about Star Wars, yet you felt the need to tell me I should accept that some people don't like Control as if that was ever being disputed and just comes off like a childish rebuttal considering all I did was make a comparison between a mechanic in 2 games.

Then you continue to tell people who have actually played the game and have stated otherwise, that its repetitive and that combat isn't varied enough despite never actually having played the game because you have intentionally avoided it because angry housewife this, woman bad that, and Star Wars better.

You're turning my understandable (and common) opinion of your beloved and quite often avoided Control game into a senseless debate. You can't seem to grasp what tons of of Star Wars fans are saying about Disney's take on the franchise. If you can't even see that they've ruined it's reputation, maybe take a look at the box office numbers and get a clue. The only SW content they put out that hasn't completely tanked is Force Awakens, Mandalorian, and Book of Boba Fett. It's easy to see why their first SW film was the only success, it had both Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher, and SW fans were hoping it would be as good as the originals. You can also see by the HUGE drop in box office attendance thereafter most think Disney sucks at conveying original SW canon, and even worse at coming up with their own. Solo was one of the biggest budget movies ever made, also one of the biggest disasters of all time at the box office. it lost them a ton of money. Also, The Mandalorian and Boba Fett were mostly written by John Favreau, as was FO by Respawn.

Also, there's only that ONE instance of a SW character saying laser sword in Lucas' films, and yes, it was Anakin, but as a kid, and he also says it's the weapon Jedis carry, not Jedi. Clearly the kid doesn't even know how to speak maturely at that age. And while Lucas himself is known to having referred to them as laser swords, he at least had the sense to know not to put that dialog in his movies again after the backlash from young Anakin saying it. George was at his best writing the general story for SW, when it came to dialog, much it it felt rushed, especially the stuff he did to develop Anakin's character, and the words between him and Padme were often cheesy.

I don't need to play a game to know what looks repetitive and boring to me. I not only saw tons of gameplay videos of players of all skill ranges, many I've talked to whom have played aren't in denial about it like you, and admit as much, that it's very repetitive in settings and combat. Anyone would have to be blind to watch extensive gameplay content of it and see otherwise. At any rate, I have better things to do than endlessly debate with a fanboy in denial, over an opinion of mine he can't accept. Deal with it, you like the game, I don't. I said the same (for different reasons) about Remedy's AW American Nightmare. I've liked literally all of their other work, and am looking forward to AW 2, but I think even Remedy know Control was not accepted by many, and even they've acknowledged it was a weird concept.
 
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Turo602

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You're turning my understandable (and common) opinion of your beloved and quite often avoided Control game into a senseless debate. You can't seem to grasp what tons of of Star Wars fans are saying about Disney's take on the franchise. If you can't even see that they've ruined it's reputation, maybe take a look at the box office numbers and get a clue. The only SW content they put out that hasn't completely tanked is Force Awakens, Mandalorian, and Book of Boba Fett. It's easy to see why their first SW film was the only success, it had both Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher, and SW fans were hoping it would be as good as the originals. You can also see by the HUGE drop in box office attendance thereafter most think Disney sucks at conveying original SW canon, and even worse at coming up with their own. Solo was one of the biggest budget movies ever made, also one of the biggest disasters of all time at the box office. it lost them a ton of money. Also, The Mandalorian and Boba Fett were mostly written by John Favreau, as was FO by Respawn.

Also, there's only that ONE instance of a SW character saying laser sword in Lucas' films, and yes, it was Anakin, but as a kid, and he also says it's the weapon Jedis carry, not Jedi. Clearly the kid doesn't even know how to speak maturely at that age. And while Lucas himself is known to having referred to them as laser swords, he at least had the sense to know not to put that dialog in his movies again after the backlash from young Anakin saying it. George was at his best writing the general story for SW, when it came to dialog, much it it felt rushed, especially the stuff he did to develop Anakin's character, and the words between him and Padme were often cheesy.

I don't need to play a game to know what looks repetitive and boring to me. I not only saw tons of gameplay videos of players of all skill ranges, many I've talked to whom have played aren't in denial about it like you, and admit as much, that it's very repetitive in settings and combat. Anyone would have to be blind to watch extensive gameplay content of it and see otherwise. At any rate, I have better things to do than endlessly debate with a fanboy in denial, over an opinion of mine he can't accept. Deal with it, you like the game, I don't. I said the same (for different reasons) about Remedy's AW American Nightmare. I've liked literally all of their other work, and am looking forward to AW 2, but I think even Remedy know Control was not accepted by many, and even they've acknowledged it was a weird concept.
Speaking of needless debates, I have no clue why you keep rambling on about Disney Star Wars vs George Lucas' Star Wars when once again, I made one simple comparison between a gameplay mechanic and you took it as a challenge and keep pivoting your stance while projecting more and more irrelevant nonsense that's not even being debated. We're so far off from the original topic here because you keep looking for new things to debate and add because you're very clearly insecure.

Regardless, enjoy your half-baked opinion on Control that you apparently did extensive research on despite being many publications' Game of the Year and winning many awards, some of which being for its art. To say the game's environments are repetitive and hold onto it like fact just because it paints with a different color pallette than Star Wars and utilizes brutalist architecture as its primary setting only tells me that your idea of repetitive is misguided seeing as every floor and room in Control is unique from one another.

And seeing as you've never played the game, whatever you have to say about combat is irrelevant. Bring your friends here so I can talk to them about it. You're right that you don't need to play a game to tell us you wouldn't like it. Enjoyment is subjective and I trust you know yourself well enough to know what you look for in a game and if you find its art direction unappealing, you're entitled to feel that way. But don't sit here and act like you know what you're talking about when it comes to experiencing its gameplay and the flow of combat seeing as your uninformed and weak criticism could be made about Fallen Order which it has many similarities to, including its gameplay progression.

I could just as easily look at videos of Fallen Order and tell you it looks repetitive, because of course it does. It's a contextless video that tells you nothing about actually experiencing it which is why reviewers use words to describe it. I've played both games, they're both some of my favorite games of the last generation but feel free to parrot other people's opinions at me, but I really don't care. I played the game and I know what I'm talking about. But go ahead and tell me to accept that you don't like it, like I was ever trying to force you to because once again, you're jumping to false conclusions and will say anything to feel like you're getting the upper hand in an argument you've completely made up.

And yeah, Remedy is so ashamed of Control being their fastest-growing IP since Max Payne that they're giving it a spin-off and a sequel. They must be in denial too.
 

Gun Powder B

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"Like it or not", you'll just have to accept many of us think Control looks like a total waste of time. In fact the very words spoken above about the RT effects makes it sound like anyone praising it is speaking more of the graphics than the actual combat. To me, Control is one of Remedy's worst game concepts.

I missed this comment and dropping in here to say that I'm playing it on my laptop with a miniscule Geforce 1650 ti and a PS5 controller and it's still a great combat experience :). Playing on a super desktop with a RTX top-of-the-line card is great and all and augments the experience but the fundamentals still hold up just as well regardless of platform.

Just beat every mission in the game as well as the expansions and had a blast with trying out various weapons and their upgrades. One of my favorite missions was a side mission in 'Foundations' expansion where you had to find all these ID cards and put them in the correct slots to go down the elevator to fight the boss and grab the research. I thought that was pretty nifty and there's definitely potential here for Remedy to make a truly great survival horror experience if they play their cards right, and seeing as how they're now under Epic Games which an unlimited supply of $$$ thanks to Fortnite, it looks like they have all the resources they need to get it nailed down just right in Alan Wake 2. I just hope they blend the plot, characters, and gameplay better this time around because 'Control' is certainly lopsided towards combat at the expense of a story that isn't told very well. We will see.

Also, I found this for whoever is interested.


With all these survival horror games incoming, 'Silent Hill' and 'Parasite Eve' are awfully and strangely quiet for some reason. You'd think Konami and Squeenix would jump at the opportunities to get remakes of these games out ASAP. Perhaps they are playing it very safe and want to see what RE4make does before they pull the trigger.
 
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Frag Maniac

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I missed this comment and dropping in here to say that I'm playing it on my laptop with a miniscule Geforce 1650 ti and a PS5 controller and it's still a great combat experience :). Playing on a super desktop with a RTX top-of-the-line card is great and all and augments the experience but the fundamentals still hold up just as well regardless of platform.

Just beat every mission in the game as well as the expansions and had a blast with trying out various weapons and their upgrades. One of my favorite missions was a side mission in 'Foundations' expansion where you had to find all these ID cards and put them in the correct slots to go down the elevator to fight the boss and grab the research. I thought that was pretty nifty and there's definitely potential here for Remedy to make a truly great survival horror experience if they play their cards right, and seeing as how they're now under Epic Games which an unlimited supply of $$$ thanks to Fortnite, it looks like they have all the resources they need to get it nailed down just right in Alan Wake 2. I just hope they blend the plot, characters, and gameplay better this time around because 'Control' is certainly lopsided towards combat at the expense of a story that isn't told very well. We will see.

Also, I found this for whoever is interested.


With all these survival horror games incoming, 'Silent Hill' and 'Parasite Eve' are awfully and strangely quiet for some reason. You'd think Konami and Squeenix would jump at the opportunities to get remakes of these games out ASAP. Perhaps they are playing it very safe and want to see what RE4make does before they pull the trigger.

I still feel I'm inclined to wait for Alan Wake 2 than try Control, and it also looks to me like a better game to use Survival Horror elements with.

Lately I'm having a blast with Spider-Man Remastered though. There's a ton of cool stuff you can do in this game.
 

Rain611

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Looking forward to the upcoming Evil Dead additions. It's really cool to see a game being updated as constantly as this game is. And it looks like they're going to be implementing some much needed balancing soon.
 

Gun Powder B

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Mikami wants to make his "own game" as in, he's not humble enough to declare Resident Evil his "own game" because he did not have 100% control over it or something.

I'm a pessimist on this one, and something tells me that Mikami should just retire already and declare Resident Evil his life achievement and call it quits because this could backfire. I'm getting weird George Lucas vibes here.
 
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Frag Maniac

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I have mixed opinions of Mikami lately, just like I do Kojima. I loved The Evil Within, very good AI that could hear where you ran to, were hard to sneak up on, and became more aggressive and alert on harder difficulty modes. The AI was unpredictable too, you didn't always know if they were dead when they went down, and they'd often swat at you while prone. This caused me to really study the game well and how I played it.

It seems the biggest obstacles for both Mikami and Kojima though is their will to prove themselves different. To a degree Mikami does this even while catering too much to players whom complain about how challenging his games are. This is why I feel he put in auto takedowns from cover in TEW 2, and made the AI stop looking for you as soon as you were out of their view.

IMO Ghostwire Tokyo and Death Stranding were both risky ventures for Mikami and Kojima. Ghostwire Tokyo looks like an overly arcade Japanese version of a Doctor Strange horror movie, and the animations don't even look very polished. Death Stranding was a mess of handling rugged terrain, then when you finally got to the monsters, they were all so monotone in appearance.

I mean you can develop yourself into a corner by insisting on being so different that you completely abandon the things that brought you the most success. I still hope for the best for these two though, because I've really enjoyed some of their games. I hear Kojima is only talking about a podcast he does now though.
 

Gun Powder B

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I thought The Evil Within was his own game.

Apparently it's more complicated than that. Remember, Mikami initially wanted nothing to do with 'Resident Evil' and hated the horror genre because I guess he got scared too easily (Accidental genius hard at work!) but Capcom kinda forced it on him so that genre stuck to his persona.

He certainly had more control over 'The Evil Within' but his horror branding that's attached to him was the motivating factor behind that game and he has an image to maintain hence its existence.

Not something he felt was "his own".

He has dabbled in other genre's but nothing is noteworthy so I can imagine something he feels is "his own" will be no different, as I'm sure most RE fans would agree to that and it looks like another important video game designer from the past is just getting old and going the wayside unfortunately.

Sure, maybe there's some other genius in there and perhaps he'll create a new masterpiece, but I certainly would not bet on it!

I mean no offense to any Mikami fans that may post or lurk here of course who really like him and respect whatever he creates, I'm just looking at this from an RE/Survival Horror fan perspective on the broad scale, not from a Mikami (or any specific game designer) fan perspective.
 
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Turo602

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I personally don't know why anyone gives a sh*t so badly what the guy is doing or judging his personal career choices. I respect him for what he gave us with Resident Evil, I liked what he did with The Evil Within, but I had zero interest in Ghostwire: Tokyo and unless the next thing he does looks interesting to me, I really don't care what game he makes next.
 

Gun Powder B

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I personally don't know why anyone gives a sh*t so badly what the guy is doing or judging his personal career choices.

It is not my burden to make games, it is my burden to critique, criticize, and analyze important people who do.
 

Gun Powder B

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I mean you can develop yourself into a corner by insisting on being so different that you completely abandon the things that brought you the most success. I still hope for the best for these two though, because I've really enjoyed some of their games. I hear Kojima is only talking about a podcast he does now though.

Yeah that's the thing though, it's like everyone is transitioning to a new phase and wants to "shed the past". I haven't really seen a new generation of developers take the mantle and start innovating the industry so here we are stuck in some weird limbo of sameness mixed with strange new things that probably will not mean anything in the long term by aging developers aka Death Stranding and Ghostwire: Tokyo (there are countless others but I think these are the two most are familiar with).

I liked Death Stranding btw. Despite its flaws, it had some redeemable quirks to it. The theory that you either love it or hate it is BS. You can merely enjoy something like this and acknowledge it has flaws. Sort of like how I feel about RE0. :)
 
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