• Welcome to the Resident Evil Community Forum!

    We're a group of fans who are passionate about the Resident Evil series and video gaming.

    Register Log in

Resident Evil - Code: Veronica Not a plothole after all...

Hardware

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
329
Reaction score
264
Points
3,553
I got ahold of some early design papers for C:V (no, I cannot share them: you're free to believe me or not) and, even in such early documents, it is stated that Claire was supposed to contact Chris when she meets Steve in the prison camp office. I always thought that was a huge plothole (why was she searching for Chris if she could just send him an email?) and was astonished that it was supposed to be that way from the very beginning...until I realized that, when it is said that Umbrella is monitoring Chris, it probably also means that they knew where he was, allowing Claire to forward the intel to Leon, who in turns is capable of tracking Chris down. They could've been more clear about this, but I reckon that's the way the writers intended to solve the big "where's Chris?" mystery - the dialogue exchanges between Steve and Claire are exactly the same in those papers as they are in the game, so, yeah, they were a bit lazy - they also never really bothered to tell us what the F was Chris up to for the 3 months or so that Claire spent looking for him, but I reckon they never really gave too much thought about it.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
19
Reaction score
14
Points
488
Age
40
I think it comes down to the localization. The Japanese script I bet was more clear, but when they did the translation some details for lost in the shuffle. This localization issue is actually quite common in the series and you'll find that the real lore junkies will often turn to the Japanese versions for the accurate details , dialogue, or events, etc
 

Hardware

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
329
Reaction score
264
Points
3,553
I think it comes down to the localization. The Japanese script I bet was more clear, but when they did the translation some details for lost in the shuffle. This localization issue is actually quite common in the series and you'll find that the real lore junkies will often turn to the Japanese versions for the accurate details , dialogue, or events, etc
Nope - the documents I got were in Japanese (I translated them with an app that is better than Google Translate) - the dialogues were almost 100% like the ones in the released game.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
19
Reaction score
14
Points
488
Age
40
Nope - the documents I got were in Japanese (I translated them with an app that is better than Google Translate) - the dialogues were almost 100% like the ones in the released game.
Well then it really is just a case of bad writing - I suppose the other most common issue XD
I love it, even still - but yeah should have been more clearly expressed in the game. The excepted canon explanation seems to be that Claire contacted Leon who used his government sources to find and get a message to Chris. I think DC shoes something similar.
 

Gun Powder B

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2021
Messages
217
Reaction score
136
Points
2,288
Starting with CV:X is when Capcom started getting lazy with the franchise, yes, and were clearly b*lls deep into getting content out there for wealth accumulation and not putting much thought into weeding out internal contradictions and also forcing in elements from other survival horror franchises. As opposed to RE2 which its original design was almost completely scrapped and rewritten and we got something better. We were almost stuck with weak characters like Elza Walker and a Brian Irons who was actually a good guy/cop but a very weak character (based off of the intel I managed to scrape up from 1.5). Heck, even 'Nemesis' had a bunch of reworks and design roadblocks before they managed to get a solid product out there.

They saved face a little bit with REmake (Though Lisa Trevor's presence always struck me as a Silent Hill knock off for some reason) and Zero (Which I think was actually conceptualized before CV:X) but then they dropped the bomb with RE4. Bear in mind I'm referring to the plots here, not the gameplay. The last person who will criticize the gameplay of RE4 is me, but I wish they didn't do that at the expense of challenging puzzles. Even in 2005 when I was high on RE4 I criticized them for lack of puzzles that require SOME brain cells to complete.

As for localization from Japanese games from that era in general, I don't think the issue was bad translation but the issue of removing key plot items and content that would have been considered offensive and 'bad' by an extremely conservative American population at that time period. This particular case in CV @Hardware is referring to would not be classified as offensive so I'm not surprised it's authentic and not just a localization issue.

Capcom was clearly getting weak on how they wanted the plot of the series to evolve in favor of competition and incorporating more market friendly gameplay elements and there's no good defense for it in retrospect and 20/20 hindsight (except greed).
 
Last edited:

Murderer Enshrined

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2021
Messages
217
Reaction score
87
Points
1,788
Just a side-note here:

The original character of Nemesis - if you can call a monster villain that - was supposed to be a character that Capcom felt wasn't right for the re3 (original), but they felt was good enough to keep for a later game, but not an RE one. Could you imagine Jill being chased around in re3 by Dante from Devil May Cry?
 

Hardware

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
329
Reaction score
264
Points
3,553
Starting with CV:X is when Capcom started getting lazy with the franchise, yes, and were clearly b*lls deep into getting content out there for wealth accumulation and not putting much thought into weeding out internal contradictions and also forcing in elements from other survival horror franchises.
...actually, C:V (C:VX is an afterthought) is one of the two installments where they actually crafted the game around the plot and not the other way around. The other was RE0, which, along with Veronica and 4, was supposed to be part of Sugimura's Progenitor Trilogy. I don't know who came up with the silliest ideas (I love C:V deeply, but I despise 0), but all I can say is that a lot of the things most people hate were not part of the "script" - for example, Alexia's first transformation wasn't supposed to go Parasite Eve-style...the text just says that she turns into a monster. I reckon her clothes burning spontaneously and all the rest were either game director Hiroki Kato's ideas or something the CG videos director came up with.

EDIT: I called the character "Alexia", but in the documents, she's called Hilda Von Kruger (as Alfred was named Hilbert - but this is stuff a lot of people already know)...actually, early on, she's referred to as "Lady Veronica". Back in the day, Shinji Mikami used to say the title CODE:Veronica referred to an actual character within the game - I guess she was it (especially since, in the script, there's no Veronica Ashford or cloning experiment - Hilda and Hilbert seem to be naturally-born siblings).


Zero (Which I think was actually conceptualized before CV:X) but then they dropped the bomb with RE4. Bear in mind I'm referring to the plots here, not the gameplay. The last person who will criticize the gameplay of RE4 is me, but I wish they didn't do that at the expense of challenging puzzles. Even in 2005 when I was high on RE4 I criticized them for lack of puzzles that require SOME brain cells to complete.
Zero (the N64 version) was born more or less around the time of C:V. Capcom fancied about making a RE game for the Nintendo console around the time of RE1, but the project didn't really move forward until after the release of RE2, whose success effectively spawned the series as a franchise and several games were put in development: RE 1.9 (later RE3), C:V, Gun Survivor, RE0 and RE3 (later RE4 and even later DMC - even though the early RE3 for PS1 was still a different game). Hideki Kamiya was briefly involved in Zero's early development. Capcom did drop the F-ing ball with RE4 - both story and gameplay-wise if you ask me. The two things go hand in hand, and you cannot make an effective horror game if the protagonist can round-kick anything that comes forward. Even as a shooter, I gotta say RE4 is not as fun as most people hail it to be - and I am not saying this to be gratuitously nasty. It is fun, but it's also very repetitive: the Castle bit really drags itself. And the Island part is ridiculous: you're supposed to face an army with controls that still try to go give off an impression of survival horror (which almost worked in the very early stages - almost). Hang me if you want, but I do find RE5 funnier to play - it still gets repetitive at times, but it's more varied...and the plot at least tries to tie in with the past games.



As for localization from Japanese games from that era in general, I don't think the issue was bad translation but the issue of removing key plot items and content that would have been considered offensive and 'bad' by an extremely conservative American population at that time period. This particular case in CV @Hardware is referring to would not be classified as offensive so I'm not surprised it's authentic and not just a localization issue.
Don't know what you're talking about here. If you're referring to stuff like the Nazi imagery (which were not in the script - even though some lines kind of refer to stuff looking like they came out of WW2), I can see why they were removed and it wasn't just a matter of "conservative Americans": the game would've likely been outright banned in places like Germany had it contained that sort of stuff. I still like the fact the prison camp is modeled after a concentration camp in C:V - it makes everything more disturbing (especially if you've ever visited places like Auschwitz) and Umbrella looks even more evil. Also, a lot of content from the RE games was cut because of fear of local (i.e. Japanese) censorship or bad reception from the public: for example, in RE2 the first Licker was supposed to drop a severed head in front of the player during the early encounter (you can still see it in some trailers from the beta version online), but it was removed from the game because, around the same time, a bunch of school children were brutally murdered in Japan and the team thought it would've been in poor taste to keep such a graphic element in the game.
 
Last edited:

Gun Powder B

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2021
Messages
217
Reaction score
136
Points
2,288
Don't know what you're talking about here. If you're referring to stuff like the Nazi imagery (which were not in the script - even though some lines kind of refer to stuff looking like they came out of WW2), I can see why they were removed and it wasn't just a matter of "conservative Americans":

What? :LOL: I have no idea what "Nazi imagery" you're talking about. That seems to something on your focal point of interest. I was referring to America's ridiculous social conservatism and prudishness at that particular time period, Australia had it as well, where everything was edited and censored fit American social norms and TV shows about police busting criminals were some of the top rated.

Not really RE related in particular but several Japanese games ported to NA had some butchered content so as not to ruffle any uptight American parents feathers.

Also, anyone who "despises" 'Zero' but loves CV:X raises eyebrows. 'Zero' did hurt RE1's lore a bit and whenever I play RE1 I like to imagine 'Zero' did not happen in the context of that particular game, but it did add some great backstory, lore, and the atmosphere was quite good. I consider it well in line with classic 'Biohazard' on things that matter (Although Mr. Leech could have probably been done differently, admittedly).
 
Last edited:

Hardware

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
329
Reaction score
264
Points
3,553
What? :LOL: I have no idea what "Nazi imagery" you're talking about. That seems to something on your focal point of interest. I was referring to America's ridiculous social conservatism and prudishness at that particular time period, Australia had it as well, where everything was edited and censored fit American social norms and TV shows about police busting criminals were some of the top rated.
So, you're basically talking about everything and nothing from an American-centric POV, despite the fact the game is Japanese and sold everywhere in the world.

I myself was referring to the fact Code: Veronica was supposed to feature even more Nazi-related imagery than just the Golden Lugers, the German tank, and the concentration camp (including the infamous ovens). Originally, Hilbert and Hilda were the grandsons of a Nazi officer who fled to the South Pacific after WW2, and some of the plaques you see in the game were supposed to feature swastikas. Considering this is a post about CODE: Veronica made in the CODE: Veronica section of the forum, I thought you were going to stick to the main topic.


Also, anyone who "despises" 'Zero' but loves CV:X raises eyebrows.
Feel free to raise all the eyebrows you want: C:V (I refuse to call it CV:X) is the natural progression of the RE1 and 2 storylines, despite some flaws which I consider minor. It's very moody and creepy, it's probably the only game in the series where the plot actually has themes and it was a major technical achievement upon its first release.

Zero messes up the plot of RE1 in every possible way, it's way sillier than the silliest ideas in C:V, and it really felt like a tired retread of the original game. Even Mikami himself said it was a game that shouldn't have been made but Okamoto wanted an exclusive RE game for the Nintendo. Its only real virtue is the graphics: it looked amazing back in the day on the GC and it looks even better in its remastered form - it outshines REmake in that department and actually does show that 2D backgrounds might still have something to say even to this day.
 

Gun Powder B

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2021
Messages
217
Reaction score
136
Points
2,288
There are both Nazi and Soviet elements in the REverse (Naturally, as both governments, like Umbrella, are quite guilty of morbid experiments on their prisoners) and Umbrella has activity recruited both nationalists and communists especially from the Eastern bloc after the fall of the USSR into mercenary units. They make good villains because of their outrageously high death counts and Umbrella doesn't seem to discriminate between the two ideologies (though they seem to love roaming around in gangs and fighting each other irl).

RE0, creepy? Alfred was far creepier and weird than anything 'Zero' had to offer but if you REALLY want to get "moldy" and "creepy", look no further than RE7, about the creepiest most disgusting game in the series. I also can't find evidence of Mikami not being happy with 'Zero', only that it did not reach sales expectations (the unhappiest thing about it from an employees POV).

The Ashford family's role in the founding of 'Umbrella' was great for lore sake but the entire "Twins" theme was ripped straight from Parasite Eve, and borrowing Nazi elements to fit the "Bad Guy" narrative is always a cheap and easy thing to do because as I said, Nazi's make cheap and easy villains and that's all there is to it...no need to dive further into that pathology :cautious:
 
Last edited:

Hardware

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
329
Reaction score
264
Points
3,553
Dude, do you even read what I (or other people) write? I said RESIDENT EVIL CODE: VERONICA IS CREEPY! Not Zero. I am more and more convinced you're a troll - that change of nickname didn't fool anyone, lovely boy.
 
Top