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Resident Evil 3 Remake Narrative Issues

KennedyKiller

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Ok, so I was watching the Maximilian Dood reaction video to the new gameplay footage, and I have a problem. Carlos is telling Jill where to go in Racoon City, and giving her directions via radio. WTF. JILL is the local. She's the elite cop that should know the city like the back of her hand. Carlos is some random merc dropped in a city he knows nothing about. Why the HELL are they having him be the expert on the city layout and telling Jill where to go/what to do. Narratively that makes absolutely no sense.
 
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Ok, so I was watching the Maximilian Dood reaction video to the new gameplay footage, and I have a problem. Carlos is telling Jill where to go in Racoon City, and giving her directions via radio. WTF. JILL is the local. She's the elite cop that should know the city like the back of her hand. Carlos is some random merc dropped in a city he knows nothing about. Why the HELL are they having him be the expert on the city layout and telling Jill where to go/what to do. Narratively that makes absolutely no sense.
Because they have to put the subways station into motion, and Carlos is probably monitoring everything whit the computer to see what they have to adjust to make the subway work again... jill is not an electrician or else, he know the city yeah but she dosent know how to make a subway station to work
 

KennedyKiller

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Because they have to put the subways station into motion, and Carlos is probably monitoring everything whit the computer to see what they have to adjust to make the subway work again... jill is not an electrician or else, he know the city yeah but she dosent know how to make a subway station to work
This still makes zero sense. A, it's 1998. There's no way Carlos is monitoring anything with a computer. He was raised in a war torn south American country. Dude isn't a computer guy. War is all he's ever known. B. He's telling Jill the best way to get where she needs to go...in a city he's never been in, that as a cop, she should know. Her needing explained how to get around in a city where she's an elite cop is ridiculous.
 

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Because she's an elite cop, you probably won't find her patrolling the streets every day or arresting someone for peeing on the city monument like an ordinary cop. And it's not her first job either, being an ex-member of Delta Force at 23, so chances are she's only been living in Raccoon City since shortly before the Mansion Incident. I guess that could explain why she doesn't know the city layout by heart, although I agree that it does seem strange that she has to be told where to go by an outsider. It's obviously a gameplay mechanic to tell the player where to go, but it could have been solved better by Carlos simply telling Jill that they need to get the subway moving again, and her saying: "Ah yes, I can see the electricity tower (or whatever) in the distance, I'll go there and see what I can do."
 
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This still makes zero sense. A, it's 1998. There's no way Carlos is monitoring anything with a computer. He was raised in a war torn south American country. Dude isn't a computer guy. War is all he's ever known. B. He's telling Jill the best way to get where she needs to go...in a city he's never been in, that as a cop, she should know. Her needing explained how to get around in a city where she's an elite cop is ridiculous.
I don't think it is ridiculous, Carlos is a war verteran and he know how to deal whit situation he is telling jill how to make the subway work... Computer existed in 1998, also it was my assumption to think he is monitoring jill progress via a computer in the stars office along whit Tyrrell to tell her were to go to repair the station, just like the scene from the first jurassic park
Jill kow the city like the back of her hand but she can't know ho to repair the subways station, i know every corner in my city but if i had tl repair the subways station i would not know where to start

Also Carlos and the other UBCS member were trying to repair the subway station long before they meet Jill so they know what they must do but they need jill help because having more fighting people is always good... Why should jill spend time to figure out how to repair tjr subway station when the UBCS already know how to do that? It's more easy if she follow they're instruction

It perfectly make sense
 

KennedyKiller

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I don't think it is ridiculous, Carlos is a war verteran and he know how to deal whit situation he is telling jill how to make the subway work... Computer existed in 1998, also it was my assumption to think he is monitoring jill progress via a computer in the stars office along whit Tyrrell to tell her were to go to repair the station, just like the scene from the first jurassic park
Jill kow the city like the back of her hand but she can't know ho to repair the subways station, i know every corner in my city but if i had tl repair the subways station i would not know where to start

Also Carlos and the other UBCS member were trying to repair the subway station long before they meet Jill so they know what they must do but they need jill help because having more fighting people is always good... Why should jill spend time to figure out how to repair tjr subway station when the UBCS already know how to do that? It's more easy if she follow they're instruction

It perfectly make sense
That's not the part I'm arguing. Her not understanding "the best route" when that's literally her job as a cop and is a local, and having some random dude who's never stepped foot in this city explain to her the best route makes zero sense. As for the computer thing, there's no way a computer in 1998 is tracking a person as the move. Jill would have to have something on her person that's trackable. And there's no way she has some small portable GPS thing or wifi device in 1998. Even if she DOES have something like that, which would be stupid, but whatever, that's doesn't alter the fact that it is bad writing to have the super elite cop who is local to this city not understand "the best route* to get to a location that she should 100% know about because that's part of her literal job, and need to be given instructions on how to get there by a mercenary grunt who has never been to this city before. RE3 went out of its way in the original to put emphasis on the fact that UBCS agents were basically just hired guns. They're not like HUNK and his boys. Super advanced and high-tech.
 
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That's not the part I'm arguing. Her not understanding "the best route" when that's literally her job as a cop and is a local, and having some random dude who's never stepped foot in this city explain to her the best route makes zero sense. As for the computer thing, there's no way a computer in 1998 is tracking a person as the move. Jill would have to have something on her person that's trackable. And there's no way she has some small portable GPS thing or wifi device in 1998. Even if she DOES have something like that, which would be stupid, but whatever, that's doesn't alter the fact that it is bad writing to have the super elite cop who is local to this city not understand "the best route* to get to a location that she should 100% know about because that's part of her literal job, and need to be given instructions on how to get there by a mercenary grunt who has never been to this city before. RE3 went out of its way in the original to put emphasis on the fact that UBCS agents were basically just hired guns. They're not like HUNK and his boys. Super advanced and high-tech.
I'm not saying that she have a GPS, but that tjeu are monitoring her progression via thr computer like jurassic park, did you remember that scene? They are monitoring ellie progress whit the computer they are not monitoring her location but her progress, to know her location they must talk to her whit the radio just like jill and Carlos are doing

I don't see why this should be ridicolous it totally make sense

It's stupid to think that a lone cop would survivor and know where to go in a city full of 100.000 zombie alone only because she live in that city, it make more sense that the UBCS tell her were to go and how to procede since they know how to repair the subway station, since it pretty obvious that they were trying to repair it long before jill arrive...

Also the game isn't out yet, we don't know how things turn out, if Carlos and the other ubcs enlist jill s help there is a reason
 

Magnolia Grandiflora

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I can imagine S.T.A.R.S. is called to the substation a lot for issues that require the equivalent of a SWAT team. I can also imagine Jill is well versed on alleys because the streets in Raccoon City are always barricaded.

*insert sarcasm here*

I'm sure there are a lot of SWAT teams that don't know the city like the back of their hand. (Despite that being a line in Umbrella Chronicles that I think we're taking a little too seriously now.) That's why those types of teams usually have someone who gets that type of information for them.

Carlos' team probably has an intelligence agent who gathered information on Raccoon City before they were deployed. Hell, maybe he is that agent. And it's unfair to say he wouldn't know computers just because he knows war and is a mercenary. War isn't just grunts, there are tactics and information needed to fight wars.

Let's not forget that Jill is a young woman who was in Delta force and is now a member of an elite task team with the police department. She's very accomplished for someone her age. She either started when she was twelve or she hadn't been in Raccoon City very long at the time of the outbreaks.

We also need to remember that the size of Raccoon City has been retconned to being larger than it was originally. Jill's probably trying to keep up with the changes too. But seriously with a city large enough for the death toll to surpass the 100,000 mark, how realistic is it for her to know every nook and cranny?
 
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I can imagine S.T.A.R.S. is called to the substation a lot for issues that require the equivalent of a SWAT team. I can also imagine Jill is well versed on alleys because the streets in Raccoon City are always barricaded.

*insert sarcasm here*

I'm sure there are a lot of SWAT teams that don't know the city like the back of their hand. (Despite that being a line in Umbrella Chronicles that I think we're taking a little too seriously now.) That's why those types of teams usually have someone who gets that type of information for them.

Carlos' team probably has an intelligence agent who gathered information on Raccoon City before they were deployed. Hell, maybe he is that agent. And it's unfair to say he wouldn't know computers just because he knows war and is a mercenary. War isn't just grunts, there are tactics and information needed to fight wars.

Let's not forget that Jill is a young woman who was in Delta force and is now a member of an elite task team with the police department. She's very accomplished for someone her age. She either started when she was twelve or she hadn't been in Raccoon City very long at the time of the outbreaks.

We also need to remember that the size of Raccoon City has been retconned to being larger than it was originally. Jill's probably trying to keep up with the changes too. But seriously with a city large enough for the death toll to surpass the 100,000 mark, how realistic is it for her to know every nook and cranny?
I agree, also i think that Tyrrell is the one who gather information about thr city for the UBCS Infact he is the one using the computer in the trailer and even in the original
 

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Maybe this is Capcom's way of enforcing the stereotype of women not having any sense of direction...

I'm not very comfortable with this either, so I'm with KennedyKiller. Jill was recruited by Wesker in 1996 so that gives her at least 1,5 years to adapt to Raccoon City before the Mansion Incident, which is more than enough time. Although we don't know to what extent she explored the city on a personal basis, we know what she has both an apartment and an office desk at the RPD. Obviously she'd know the city layout better than what's presented in this new gameplay. The dialogue is written in a way that makes Jill seem like a tourist that was just dropped off in Raccoon City.
 
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Maybe this is Capcom's way of enforcing the stereotype of women not having any sense of direction...
No offense but this is the most stupid things i haver heard
This was not capcom intention, they just want to make the story more real

Jill Carlos and the UBCS are just co operating with each other, they must get that damn subway station to work and Carlos tell to jill how she must do that, what things to connect first... I don't really see what is the problem here

Just because a person lived in the city for many years dosent mean she know how to pass trought 100.000 zombies, a nemesis, hunter and other **** alone, i don't think jill is so stupid to say: **** all of you UBCS i ve been in this city more than you i know where to go i will do this myself
This will simply make no sense, jill isn't a superhuman persone, she dosent know how to make a subway station to work, but thr UBCS already know what need to be activate to make the station to work, they are pointing jill in the right direction to make everything works,the re 3 remake Jill is the also the toughest jill i ve seen so far so in don't think capcom is stereotipig anything here

Also we are discussing jill quote from that ****ty umbrella chronicles scenario too seriously
 

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^No offense but it's called a joke.

And actually, Jill is the exact type of person who would say "I think I know this city better than you".

Jill cooperating with Carlos over the radio isn't the problem, that's fine. It's the written dialogue that's the issue here, and it could've easily been written in a different way to not make Jill look like a complete dumbass.
 
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^No offense but it's called a joke.

And actually, Jill is the exact type of person who would say "I think I know this city better than you".

Jill cooperating with Carlos over the radio isn't the problem, that's fine. It's the written dialogue that's the issue here, and it could've easily been written in a different way to not make Jill look like a complete dumbass.
Sorry i didn't understand that was a joke...

I don't see how those dialogue make Jill look like a dumbass
What is the exact dialogue that let you think jill is an idiot?
 

KennedyKiller

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I can imagine S.T.A.R.S. is called to the substation a lot for issues that require the equivalent of a SWAT team. I can also imagine Jill is well versed on alleys because the streets in Raccoon City are always barricaded.

*insert sarcasm here*

I'm sure there are a lot of SWAT teams that don't know the city like the back of their hand. (Despite that being a line in Umbrella Chronicles that I think we're taking a little too seriously now.) That's why those types of teams usually have someone who gets that type of information for them.

Carlos' team probably has an intelligence agent who gathered information on Raccoon City before they were deployed. Hell, maybe he is that agent. And it's unfair to say he wouldn't know computers just because he knows war and is a mercenary. War isn't just grunts, there are tactics and information needed to fight wars.

Let's not forget that Jill is a young woman who was in Delta force and is now a member of an elite task team with the police department. She's very accomplished for someone her age. She either started when she was twelve or she hadn't been in Raccoon City very long at the time of the outbreaks.

We also need to remember that the size of Raccoon City has been retconned to being larger than it was originally. Jill's probably trying to keep up with the changes too. But seriously with a city large enough for the death toll to surpass the 100,000 mark, how realistic is it for her to know every nook and cranny?
Carlos didn't even know Umbrella was the reason for the Outbreak, yet we're supposed to believe that they sent them in there with enough information to be experts on a city they've never been to? The UBCS were basically expendable dogs for Umbrella, sent in on a suicide mission. Aside from higher ups, like Nicholai, none of these soldiers had any information and thought they were the GOOD guys. Again, RE3 goes out of its way to show how unprepared and uninformed the UBCS was. Which was good. It just solidified Umbrella's evil even more. If they change that for this, and treat the UBCS like more than expendable dogs, and have them there for an actual purpose, it changes the context of Umbrella as a company in a way that takes away from how cold and ruthless they are.

As for Carlos and his battle experience, again, his backstory made it very clear he was from a poor south American country. If we're to compare this to real life, those war torn areas are very poor, often using Guerilla warfare, and traditional scouting. There's no way South American war zones had computer tech savy intelligence agents in the late 80's/early 90's. Many of those countries now don't even have very great technological infrastructures here in 2020. So yeah, I'm finding it pretty hard to believe Carlos would be a tech expert. As for someone on his team? Sure, that's plausible, but again, one of the key parts of the UBCS story is that Umbrella sent them in with next to no information and woefully under-prepared, causing them to be wiped out pretty much just as easily as the police force was.
 
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Carlos didn't even know Umbrella was the reason for the Outbreak, yet we're supposed to believe that they sent them in there with enough information to be experts on a city they've never been to? The UBCS were basically expendable dogs for Umbrella, sent in on a suicide mission. Aside from higher ups, like Nicholai, none of these soldiers had any information and thought they were the GOOD guys. Again, RE3 goes out of its way to show how unprepared and uninformed the UBCS was. Which was good. It just solidified Umbrella's evil even more. If they change that for this, and treat the UBCS like more than expendable dogs, and have them there for an actual purpose, it changes the context of Umbrella as a company in a way that takes away from how cold and ruthless they are.

As for Carlos and his battle experience, again, his backstory made it very clear he was from a poor south American country. If we're to compare this to real life, those war torn areas are very poor, often using Guerilla warfare, and traditional scouting. There's no way South American war zones had computer tech savy intelligence agents in the late 80's/early 90's. Many of those countries now don't even have very great technological infrastructures here in 2020. So yeah, I'm finding it pretty hard to believe Carlos would be a tech expert. As for someone on his team? Sure, that's plausible, but again, one of the key parts of the UBCS story is that Umbrella sent them in with next to no information and woefully under-prepared, causing them to be wiped out pretty much just as easily as the police force was.
Why don't we just wait for the game to be out to see what really is going on in the story?
We are just making useless speculation right now
 

Magnolia Grandiflora

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@KennedyKiller Just because Umbrella sent them in with little to no information as to what was going on in the city, or what the commanders missions were, doesn't mean they don't have information on the city itself.

Wouldn't that pique some interest among the mercenaries? They want us to go here but they're giving us no information on where we're going. They don't want to make anyone suspicious so while they're not giving anyone information about what's really going on, yeah they would make it seem like a regular mission with information about the location they'll be in.

Carlos and the other UBSC members seemed to be doing a pretty good job of navigating the city without Jill in the original. Now how would they find their way around if they weren't at least briefed on location information?
 

KennedyKiller

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@KennedyKiller Just because Umbrella sent them in with little to no information as to what was going on in the city, or what the commanders missions were, doesn't mean they don't have information on the city itself.

Wouldn't that pique some interest among the mercenaries? They want us to go here but they're giving us no information on where we're going. They don't want to make anyone suspicious so while they're not giving anyone information about what's really going on, yeah they would make it seem like a regular mission with information about the location they'll be in.

Carlos and the other UBSC members seemed to be doing a pretty good job of navigating the city without Jill in the original. Now how would they find their way around if they weren't at least briefed on location information?
I'm not saying they wouldn't be briefed on location information. There definitely would have been SOME form of information give to them. But the idea that these mercenaries have MORE information than Jill, is where I take issue. It makes Jill look incompetent about the city she was protecting and serving, as well as diminishing the "Badass Survivor" thing she has going for her. It's a subway station in a city she lives in. She should 100% know the best route to a subway station over some random mercs that have never actually been in the city before. Like @Jonipoon said, it's not about the fact that the UBCS knows stuff. It's the dialogue between her and Carlos makes her look incompetent, and from a narrative standpoint, at least from the information we have so far, doesn't make sense.

Why don't we just wait for the game to be out to see what really is going on in the story?
We are just making useless speculation right now
That's the whole point of this Forum. Conversation, dialogue, thoughts, opinions, and speculation about the franchise. So that suggestion is kinda pointless...
 

Magnolia Grandiflora

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@KennedyKiller But he's not directing her to the subway station he's directing her to the substation. Big difference. I hate to keep running this into the ground but she's not an electrician or in charge of the power to the subway in any way shape, form or fashion. Why would it be necessary, even as a police officer, to know the way to the substation or how to turn the power back on? Especially through alleyways with the main roads and even side streets barricaded.

I'm gonna take a wild guess that Raccoon City streets aren't blocked off all the time.
 
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I'm not saying they wouldn't be briefed on location information. There definitely would have been SOME form of information give to them. But the idea that these mercenaries have MORE information than Jill, is where I take issue. It makes Jill look incompetent about the city she was protecting and serving, as well as diminishing the "Badass Survivor" thing she has going for her. It's a subway station in a city she lives in. She should 100% know the best route to a subway station over some random mercs that have never actually been in the city before. Like @Jonipoon said, it's not about the fact that the UBCS knows stuff. It's the dialogue between her and Carlos makes her look incompetent, and from a narrative standpoint, at least from the information we have so far, doesn't make sense.


That's the whole point of this Forum. Conversation, dialogue, thoughts, opinions, and speculation about the franchise. So that suggestion is kinda pointless...
Yeah i was just thinking that we are taking this speculation to much seriously when the game isn't even out yet

As for the rest jill is not an electrician, she can't know how to turn on a subway station that s why carlos and the other tell her were to go

I don't understand this fact you are saying, thaf only because jill lived in the city must know every single things about it... So if instead of the subway the game put a ship or a tank jill should know how to make this two things to work because she lived in the city while the UBCS is incompetent because they are dogs of War, cool
 

KennedyKiller

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@KennedyKiller But he's not directing her to the subway station he's directing her to the substation. Big difference. I hate to keep running this into the ground but she's not an electrician or in charge of the power to the subway in any way shape, form or fashion. Why would it be necessary, even as a police officer, to know the way to the substation or how to turn the power back on? Especially through alleyways with the main roads and even side streets barricaded.

I'm gonna take a wild guess that Raccoon City streets aren't blocked off all the time.
Ok, that's fair. That parts on me for the misunderstanding, however, I'm not arguing that he needs to walk her through getting it turned on, just that she should 100% know where to go. As far as Racoon being barricaded, the cops are the ones that set up said barricades. Before the UBCS even got involved. If anything, the UBCS should be the ones confused because how would they know what barricades the cops set up before their arrival. Sure they may have knowledge on the layout of the city due to a briefing. But they wouldn't have known what barricades the police already set up until they arrived on site. If anything, Jill who has been in the city from the beginning while all this is going on would have more knowledge of the barricades. I mean, this is anecdotal, but I never even became a full fledged cop. Just the police academy itself, and I know where all three power stations are in my city. And I live in a city comparable to Raccoon. A midwestern city of about 164,000. If me, a dude who was basically the lowest from of cop you could be. A trainee, inherently knows where our power stations are, I would think someone with years of advanced training and local knowledge would as well. Now, I'm sh*t with electronics. I don't understand ANYTHING about how stuff like that works. I totally get Jill not knowing what to do AT the sub station and needing walked through that part. But getting there...the act of getting there, from someone who (originally) didn't have near the knowledge she had to guide her, is what bothers me. It lessens her as a character, plus implies they're making a bunch of changes. REmake2 already changed some stuff that contradicts the lore and creates some issues. RE3 was great BECAUSE of its simplicity. They seem like they're overstuffing it with far more unnecessary story that's gonna make it less cohesive, create more plot holes, and overall, just make changes that aren't necessary, that will fundementally change Jill as a character. And as someone who holds Jill as my favorite video game character of all time (Aside from maybe Sonic the Hedgehog), seeing her character change is a huge turn off for me...IDK. RE3 is my favorite of the original PS1 games, and this to me doesn't feel like RE3. REmake2 FELT like RE2, just with some changes I wasn't a fan of. This...Feels more like a generic zombie movie so far from everything they've released. Sorry, I know that was REALLY long winded and didn't add a whole lot...
 
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