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Resident Evil 4 First time playing RE4 in 2020

Wesker90

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I will admit I'm one of those guys who played RE4 over and over again it's replay value was evident, The pacing to me was at best in Salazar's castle by far and it was a new but pretty cool experience the first time, Back in 2007 I had doubts when I first played the game as it left it's Survival horror roots for a more action playstyle but it worked out well.

Mercenaries was the best imo in RE4 as well.
 

Jonipoon

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How is re4 supernatural exactly? The plaga mutations are explained in the files. Separate ways also explains more about them.
I didn't say it was supernatural per se, my point was that it continued CVX's steering of the series into the supernatural. Nevertheless there's plenty of stuff in RE4 that is so silly that any scientific explanation become pointless. Giant trolls? An active lava pit inside a castle? Ordinary people doing Matrix-like jumps? And what about the evil guys being able to turn into giant monsters instantaneously? You know, you could explain everything in Harry Potter being the result of scientific experiments as well, but it wouldn't be believable.

Also, you shouldn't have to play a spin-off extra game to understand the story of a game. A game should be able to stand on its own. Nevertheless, any explanation in the world wouldn't be enough to take away the over-the-top sillyness of RE4.

I wouldnt call characters doing non-virus related crazy / over the top stuff as supernatural not to mention, the characters before recv / re4 also do stuff like that. ( Like the intro of re1 where stars alpha team avoid cerberus by getting inside the mansion and not getting killed by them in intro. In reality, they would have been killed by those dogs like joseph. )
Seriously. If you're comparing Alpha team being able to run away from a couple of dogs to Leon doing a superhuman backflip, I don't think we're gonna be able to have a meaningful serious discussion.

In fiction, there's something called "Suspension of disbelief". It is basically that we as consumers of a book, story, game, etc are able to accept certain things as being a bit unrealistic as long as they stay consistent and have plasuible explanation behind them.
 

mert20004

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Separate ways isnt a spinoff and it's canon. Saying it's one is like saying " B scenarios in re2 are spinoffs. " . Besides; you cant rely only on games to know stuff; you need to read extra supplemental stuff to know more story info and this isnt exclusive to one game.

But anyway; ı didnt say re4's story is good and in fact; ı think it has one of the weaker stories in the franchise not to mention mikami didnt hire a writer for the game. He just rushed a script about ashley's kidnapping. Thankfully separate ways portion has a writer hired who also wrote umbrella chronicles and re5.

I used re1's intro as example cause it's unrealistic just like how re4 leon dodging lasers is unrealistic. I didnt say re1 or any other pre-re4 mainline entry is as crazy / over the top / action packed as re4. Leon can do crazy stuff like that cause he's a trained government agent and re4 takes place 6 years after 1998.
 
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Jonipoon

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I didn't question its canonicity, I said that you shouldn't have to play an additional game to understand the story of another game. A story, whether its a book, film, game or whatever, should always be able to stand on its own. What extra games are for is to expand upon the story, not explain them. Of course you shouldn't have to read extra supplemental stuff to understand something - that in itself is proof of a flawed product.

And no, I still think comparing Alpha team running away from the dogs to Leon dodging the laser corridor with superhuman strength is a terrible comparison. One scene gives a grounded horror feeling, while the other is silly over-the-top unrealistic action scene.
 

Awebb

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Sure, Jonipoon, that's why the most successful fictional worlds are whole universes of book series, that complement each other. Books, films and games always need to stand for themselves and the mystery created by open ends is...

... a flawed product? Really? I'm really glad you don't have any leverage in media anywhere. I don't even want to imagine being spoon-fed everything. This isn't even the case here. Separate ways added some yadda-yadda that could have easily been explained in a proper sequel. That's why RE is a series, loose ends everywhere and you get to piece it together by playing all those games. Would it blow your mind to hear, that almost every really relevant piece of background information for the universe post RE4 has been given through addons and spin-offs, while whole main titles like RE5 only added the obvious (Wesker bad -> Wesker dead), or maybe like RE6, that seemingly hasn't added anything at all?
 

Billy Coen

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Resident Evil 4 is a great game, I first played it when it was released for the PS2 in October 2005.

While many people dislike the fact that this game changed the directions of the franchise, from Survival Horror to an Action game, it's still great if you judge it impartially.

And despite being more action-oriented, Resident Evil 4 still has some segments that are more suspense/horror shifted, two examples that come to mind: the fight with Verdugo in the sewers, and the appearance of the Regenerator (his theme song is disturbing/scary, same for his grunts).
 

Wesker90

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Resident Evil 4 is a great game, I first played it when it was released for the PS2 in October 2005.

While many people dislike the fact that this game changed the directions of the franchise, from Survival Horror to an Action game, it's still great if you judge it impartially.

And despite being more action-oriented, Resident Evil 4 still has some segments that are more suspense/horror shifted, two examples that come to mind: the fight with Verdugo in the sewers, and the appearance of the Regenerator (his theme song is disturbing/scary, same for his grunts).
Well said I agree, The Castle chapter carried the creepy atmosphere fairly well compared to the Village/Island.
 
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Also, you shouldn't have to play a spin-off extra game to understand the story of a game. A game should be able to stand on its own. Nevertheless, any explanation in the world wouldn't be enough to take away the over-the-top sillyness of RE4.

Infact there s no need to play separate ways to understand re 4 story the main game already explain everything about it, separate ways only expand upon it, but by re 4 end you already know what the paga is and how it work and you already know that ada and Krauser are working for wesker, that Luis is working for ada and tha before it was helping saddler ecc separate ways just expand upon it and to be fair it's not a mear spin off mini game, it's actually a whole new Canon scenario
 

Jonipoon

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Sure, Jonipoon, that's why the most successful fictional worlds are whole universes of book series, that complement each other. Books, films and games always need to stand for themselves and the mystery created by open ends is...
That's not true. You can take Star Wars as a great example; the Expanded Universe is extremely popular and successful, but the Star Wars brand as a whole did not become successful because of the Expanded Universe. No, the Expanded Universe is successful is because the main movies were so popular and successful, and in turn they paved they way for additional books and supplementary material. And hear me when I'm saying this - I absolutely love expanded universe stuff, but that's not really what we're discussing here. What we're discussing here is whether you should have to read or watch supplementary material in order to understand the main book/film/game of a certain franchise. And the answer to that is: no.

If you're referring to things like Tolkien's Middle-earth being popular because the different books complement each other, that's also a fallacy since Tolkien is basically a league of his own. At this point his universe is so well-known to non-book readers that anyone wanting to learn more about Middle-earth is not just going to pick up and start with a random book, they're most likely going to start with something like The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings. And even if they choose another of his works, it's very likely that they've seen Peter Jackson's film trilogies so they won't be completely fresh off the boat anyway. Also, most of his work on Middle-earth was published post-humously by his son. Nevertheless, Tolkien was a very skilled writer so you actually don't have to read The Hobbit to understand The Lord of the Rings, even though LOTR is technically the sequel to The Hobbit.

And to be clear, I never said that RE4's story didn't make sense or is a flawed product. The story in the main game made perfect sense to me, and I think the game on itself is a fantastic product of its time. It was simply mert20004 whom questioned me calling the game supernatural and told me that the files and Separate Ways are "proof that its not a supernatural game". But then I again I think he also didn't quite understand what I was talking about.

Hopefully we can move on from this now eh?
 

Awebb

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No, you said...

Of course you shouldn't have to read extra supplemental stuff to understand something - that in itself is proof of a flawed product.

And I not only disagreed but called bull****. You didn't address that and instead lead us through two stories of things we don't talk about right now, as you said.

But then I again I think he also didn't quite understand what I was talking about.

... which isn't surprising, as you beat around the bush a lot.

Since we're being clear: You're dismissing a whole set of media formats as "flawed products". It is one thing to have a preference, but phrases like this will attract resistance. Have you heard the term "tyranny of the eloquent" before?
 

Turo602

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No, you said...



And I not only disagreed but called bull****. You didn't address that and instead lead us through two stories of things we don't talk about right now, as you said.



... which isn't surprising, as you beat around the bush a lot.

Since we're being clear: You're dismissing a whole set of media formats as "flawed products". It is one thing to have a preference, but phrases like this will attract resistance. Have you heard the term "tyranny of the eloquent" before?

Any story that can't stand on its own merits and relies on outside material to fix the narrative is flawed. I don't understand how a statement like this is dismissive of any kind of storytelling formats or should call for "resistance" or pure dickish behavior when Jonipoon couldn't have been more clear that supplemental material in and of itself isn't flawed when treated as supplemental material and not an essential piece of information to make sense of the central story. You didn't call bull****, you're spewing it.
 
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Jonipoon

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I also don't get why my post would be interpreted as "beating around the bush", when I'm simply explaining things in detail which I precisely what I was asked to do...

But if you're reading my post while imagining a rude, angry and ignorant voice in your head- Yeah then I can see the point. :D
 

Moonlight_Sonata

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Having just replayed it, I definitely think RE4 is where the series as a narrative went completely off the rails in terms of what I was looking for. From the focus shifting from semi-believable corporate bio-experimentation to full scale secret European parasite cults to the awful characterization of formerly respectful, understated Leon as a wise-cracking ladies man, it just veers completely shamelessly into all the worst trappings of bad big budget film storytelling.

It's also very much of its time in a way that does not do it any favors. The fixation on US interventionist policy and American hegemony and preoccupation with "government agents" is completely informed by the Bush-era war on terror climate and feels very antiquated now, whereas Re1 & Re2's general themes of corporate scheming, bio-tech experimentation, and shadiness within more localized governmental/law enforcement agencies still feels relevant and engaging. I think that part of the underrated charm of the original game was the leveraging of a scope that was both worldwide in significance but very local in flavor. The player felt like they were unearthing a story that reached beyond Raccoon city, but the trappings of the town itself made everything feel hauntingly insulated. All the touches of rural life also informed the games initial aesthetic and gave it a touch of eccentricity that evoked Twin Peaks.

Also, while it's purely a personal thing, I really can't stand the Ada character. The whole shadowy, puppet master double agent in heels character is both really tired and insultingly convenient at every turn. Even in more subdued characterization, she felt out of place in the original RE2 and here they amped her up shamelessly. To me, Ada embodies all the worst impulses of the RE series beyond the first games, and generally the more heavily she's featured in something, the less I like it.

Finally - and I know this is more a visual flourish than anything related to narrative - but is there ANYTHING more brutally dated than martial arts bullet time sequences? A lot of people say the early 00's have no discernible culture, but if one existed it'd almost have to be some manifestation of black-clad people backflipping at quarter-speed whilst bullets and daggers fly perilously close to their heads and necks.

All that being said, I actually enjoyed the game more than I did when it first came out - likely because I had really low expectations and no longer have the unrealistically lofty expectations for anything bearing the Resident Evil name that I probably had when this game was released. In terms of what it tries to be, the game is definitely fun and plays exceptionally well for something so old and ambitious. There are also a lot of really cleverly designed stages and sequences. As a piece of level crafting and player engagement, it's a pretty great game.

But it definitely takes all the things I loved most about the story - characterizations, narrative tone, themes, relative believability - completely in the wrong direction. And, honestly, the series doesn't seem to have ever really recovered in that respect.
 
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UniqTeas

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As an RE4 Lover, I do understand when people don't like where it brought the series. I am glad it moved in the direction it did at the time since the series was dying at the time. But I suppose they could've recovered in other ways... and it's not like it was failing. It just lost all of the hype from the first 3 games. The game is ridiculous and is a better game than it is a Resident Evil game. But I am glad it kept the franchise moving at the minimum.
 
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As an RE4 Lover, I do understand when people don't like where it brought the series. I am glad it moved in the direction it did at the time since the series was dying at the time. But I suppose they could've recovered in other ways... and it's not like it was failing. It just lost all of the hype from the first 3 games. The game is ridiculous and is a better game than it is a Resident Evil game. But I am glad it kept the franchise moving at the minimum.
Most people are actually glad for where re 4 brought the series, and let be honest whitout re 4 we would not have had many other amazing re game like revelations 1, 2 and especially re 2 remake since they took the gameplay and camera directly from that game

Also Most game like the last of us, uncharted, tomb raider, gears of War, god of war, metal gear solid 4 onward, fortnite and all the game you can think about after 2005, should kiss re 4 ass, if they exist is because of the innovation re 4 brought to gameplay mechanic and gaming industry as a whole

Even the last of us and God of war 2018 directors openly admitted that this two game exist because of re 4
 

UniqTeas

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That is definitely true. RE4 changed gaming forever. The monstrous cult phenomenon and the unique gameplay for the time changed the face of modern gaming for sure which doubles down the status of being a Game of the Year contender. Innovation is the right word there. And it did save Capcom and the series from the slow death they were working towards.

Unfortunately, RE4 made Quick Time Events a real pain in the ass for years to come in other games. haha
 

Turo602

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Resident Evil 4 only saved the series because it was on PS2 and wasn't just a remake or a prequel.

I also don't get how people try to justify Resident Evil 4's direction with what it did for the industry, when it would have still achieved the same thing had they toned down the action and made a more survival horror driven experience with a better story. The gameplay would have still been over the shoulder third-person with free-aim shooting.
 
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That is definitely true. RE4 changed gaming forever. The monstrous cult phenomenon and the unique gameplay for the time changed the face of modern gaming for sure which doubles down the status of being a Game of the Year contender. Innovation is the right word there. And it did save Capcom and the series from the slow death they were working towards.

Unfortunately, RE4 made Quick Time Events a real pain in the ass for years to come in other games. haha
True, playing marvel avengers right now and its full of quick time event, hate them XD i actually think the only good quick time event are the one in re 4 and God of war series, other games always failed on how to make quick time event funny and not boring or frustrating
 

UniqTeas

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My favorite (and most frustrating) quicktime event of all the time is the Leon-Krauser knife fight in RE4. I have died at that part so many times, but it is a cool feature. Someday, I will do that fight perfectly. I haven't yet and I have played the game at least 15 times through.
 
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My favorite (and most frustrating) quicktime event of all the time is the Leon-Krauser knife fight in RE4. I have died at that part so many times, but it is a cool feature. Someday, I will do that fight perfectly. I haven't yet and I have played the game at least 15 times through.
Yeah, i think that fight it's my fav quick time event ever in video game history... It was really full of tension, i remember the first time just walking and then the cutscene started and Krause jumped out of the ceiling brutally killing leon because i didn't expect it, it was pretty cool actually, then the rest of the fight was pretty unexpected because Krause attacked you unexpectedly every time and he was also a very menacing character ...

Fortunately it's now easy to win the fight perfectly for me since i remember it correctly XD
 
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