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Caitlyn Jenner wins Arthur Ashe Courage Award at Espy's

La Femme Fatale

The Queen
Moderator
This seems to be subject of much discussion lately... so let's have one of our own.

What did you think of Jenner winning the courage award at the Espys? Was it well-deserved, or should another one of the candidates have been chosen instead? Thoughts!
 

Spikeyroxas

Pencil Artist
Premium
I just had to do a little research to find out what this was about.

Okay so I see alot of complaints that a transgender case won instead of a child with cancer.

I'm going to get alot of hate here:
Just because there's a child in the category shouldn't make it an automatic win (not saying they were purposely in contest)

This person has lived a life long struggle with not feeling conformable with who what and how they were.
Although I don't feel it myself, it must be a very hard and awkward feeling going through most of your life believing that your body is a lie.
I feel like this isn't taken into consideration when thinking of the ideal "winner"
 

La Femme Fatale

The Queen
Moderator
Here's a news article for those not familiar:

LOS ANGELES -- Caitlyn Jenner accepted the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the ESPYs on Wednesday night while urging acceptance for others who are transgender.

She received a standing ovation from some of the sporting world's biggest stars after her 10-minute speech during the annual awards honouring the year's top athletes and moments.

"This transition has been harder on me than anything I can imagine," said Jenner, who revealed she was in the process of becoming a woman in a televised interview with Diane Sawyer in April on ABC.

Soccer player Abby Wambach, of the U.S. women's national soccer team, left, presents Caitlyn Jenner with the Arthur Ashe award for courage at the ESPY Awards at the Microsoft Theater in Los Angeles on July 15, 2015. (AP / Invision / Chris Pizzello)

From the stage, Jenner thanked Sawyer, whom she called a friend.

Noting her powerful celebrity platform, the 1976 Olympic decathlon champion and current reality TV star vowed "to do whatever I can to reshape the landscape of how transgender people are viewed and treated."

Abby Wambach of the U.S. soccer team that won the Women's World Cup presented the trophy to Jenner, whose voice broke as she thanked members of her famous family, including stepdaughters Kim and Khloe Kardashian. Tears welled in the eyes of Jenner's younger daughter, Kylie, whose sister, Kendall, wiped a tear from her eye.

"I never wanted to hurt anyone else, most of all my family and my kids," said Jenner, wiping her eye.

She admitted that until earlier this year she had never met another transgender person.

The 65-year-old told the audience about trans teenagers who are bullied, beaten up, murdered or kill themselves. Jenner mentioned two people by name whose deaths particularly touched her.

"Trans people deserve something vital, they deserve your respect," she said. "From that respect comes a more compassionate community."

Jenner urged the crowd that included football, basketball, baseball and hockey superstars to remember what they say and do is "absorbed and observed by millions of people, especially young people."

"My plea for you tonight is one join me in making this one of your issues as well," she said.

Many in the crowd watched intently as Jenner spoke with little reaction on their faces.

"If you want to call me names, make jokes and doubt my intentions, go ahead because the reality is I can take it," she said. "But for thousands of kids out there coming to terms with the reality of who they are they shouldn't have to take it."

A video narrated by "Mad Men" actor Jon Hamm traced Jenner's life from the time when she was known as Bruce Jenner to her current transition. She mentioned she once considered ending her own life with a gun she owned.

She was shown applying makeup, buttoning her blouse in her closet and fastening the strap on her heeled shoes.

With her trembling hands clasped in front of her, Jenner joked with the audience about her struggle to select the cream gown she wore.

"OK girls, I get it," she said, as the audience laughed. "You've got to get the shoes, the hair, the makeup, it was exhausting. And the fashion police, please be kind on me. I'm new at this."

Jenner didn't walk the red carpet outside the Microsoft Theater in downtown Los Angeles, and she didn't appear backstage to talk with reporters, as most of the previous Ashe award recipients have done. ESPN said Jenner wanted her onstage comments to stand.

Reaction among Jenner's sporting peers on the red carpet was mixed.

Little League baseball pitcher Mo'ne Davis called Jenner "brave."

"She's really brave to have the courage to get through a lot of those things," said the 14-year-old who won best breakthrough athlete. "I know a lot of people give her a hard time about it, but just for her family to give her that support is amazing."

Former heavyweight champion Evander Holyfield said, "I just know that's Bruce Jenner and I'll leave it at that."

RadarOnline.com reported Wednesday that Jenner's representatives approached ESPN suggesting the network give her the Ashe award in exchange for plugs on her upcoming E! docuseries. ESPN and ABC are owned by Disney.

"That rumour is completely false," ESPN spokesman Josh Krulewitz said. "The Arthur Ashe Courage Award and ABC interview were never connected."

Jenner's publicist Alan Nierob called the report "utterly false" and had no further comment.

Jenner's selection to receive the Ashe award named for the late tennis player who died in 1993 after contracting AIDS from a blood transfusion generated strong debate online.

"I met Arthur Ashe a few times. I know how important education was to him," Jenner said. "Learn as much as you can about another person to understand them as well as you can."

Online critics said college basketball player Lauren Hill, who died of brain cancer in April, was deserving of the Ashe honour.

But Hill's mother, Lisa, attended the show and said her daughter would not have welcomed the controversy and made no judgment of others.

Jenner's series called "I Am Cait" debuts July 26.
 

Angel

I make good toast
Admin
Moderator
Premium
Eh...the things I want to say...

The cynic in me finds it very convenient that a whole series devoted to Jenner as a woman is just about to debut as an award is won.

I really do not feel Jenner is deserving of any awards of this nature.

I cannot say more without causing offence, so I'll just leave it there.
 

KevinStriker

"Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it?"
As glad as I am for her transition and being happy with herself, I can't help but feel that it's all just a publicity stunt for her new TV show based off of her life.
Even with that aside, I don't think it was deserved because I don't think Caitlyn (Formerly Bruce) Jenner's contributions transcend sports. I don't see her among the likes of Nelson Mandela or Muhammad Ali.

"But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong."
 

tremor

4 itchy tasty
Premium
I'm with Kevin on this one. My gut feeling tells me that this is all for publicity. With that being said, I am happy for her. I can't imagine what it must feel like to feel trapped inside of a body that you don't..well...agree with lol. She seems to be much happier with herself now and I guess that's all that matters.

Underneath it all, celebs are in fact just people, like us. They just like to pull weird and outrageous stunts at time, for attention. Then again....average people do the same thing lol.

I guess you could say I'm in the middle as far as this topic is concerned.
 

La Femme Fatale

The Queen
Moderator
So I have a couple comments to make on this subject.

First of all, it's the Espys, not the Nobel Peace Prize so I don't understand the big deal, frankly. It's an award show that maybe tens of people watch, and it's only being talked about this year because of Jenner. It makes perfect sense for the executives to chose her as this year's 'winner'. It's good business.

Secondly, I've seen a great deal of comments (though, none here) about how it was disrespectful to give the award to Caitlyn when a military service member was also considered. I find it amazing how much more "support" for the troops there is when it can be used to put someone else down, especially on places like Youtube. Insulting Caitlyn, and in turn the trans community as a whole, does nothing to help active duty or veteran service members... it doesn't help with PTSD treatment, it doesn't help with rehab, it doesn't comfort the families of those lost in war, not the ones lost overseas, and not the ones lost to suicide. No telling the damage you're doing to that THOUSANDS of transgender military members.

And thirdly, I do feel that Caitlyn was absolutely deserving of the award. Life is too short to live your life the way society tells you is 'normal'. Why waste it not being true to who you feel you are? I can't imagine the shame and humiliation she must have harboured within herself for her entire life. It couldn't have been easy to transition from a man to a woman, especially when you're as famous as she is and known for having at one point been the epitome of masculinity. That's not a walk in the park.
 
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Meg

So bin ich eben
How about all of the nominees are brave people and leave it at that? Never understood the point of ranking something like bravery. I agree with La Femme; it's the Espys of all things. I think people are freaking out about this because they are transphobic and don't want to admit it. *whistles* *strolls away*
 

cheezMcNASTY

Entertain me.
Premium
It's an award.
Someone else's award to give to who they wish.

No one should care who they decide to give it to and who they don't.

The whole spirit is to be happy for the winner and supportive of the non-winners (notice I'm avoiding the word loser).

If the winner is so outrageous, why was it not a problem when they were only a nominee?

People will pick any reason they can to get mad when the winner isn't who they'd personally pick.

A lot of people mad?
The process of choosing the recipient isn't a democracy. You don't get a vote. Move on.
 

KennedyKiller

Super Saiyan Member
Premium
It's honestly not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but I still can't help but feel that it was undeserved. There are multitudes of people a year that go through the transgender process. The only thing that makes his/hers and different is he/she was in the public eye back in the 80's, and he/she is the step father of the RIDICULOUSLY over rated Kardashian family that so many people love oh so much...I'm not saying what he/she did doesn't take courage, but it should have been expected, and if you're going to make that choice to make you happy, then that should be the end of it. I don't think he/she should have even been nominated. So in closing did it take courage. Sure. Should it be any of the public's business and was it deserving of an award. Not in any way, shape, or form...
 

Meg

So bin ich eben
It's honestly not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but I still can't help but feel that it was undeserved. There are multitudes of people a year that go through the transgender process. The only thing that makes his/hers and different is he/she was in the public eye back in the 80's, and he/she is the step father of the RIDICULOUSLY over rated Kardashian family that so many people love oh so much...I'm not saying what he/she did doesn't take courage, but it should have been expected, and if you're going to make that choice to make you happy, then that should be the end of it. I don't think he/she should have even been nominated. So in closing did it take courage. Sure. Should it be any of the public's business and was it deserving of an award. Not in any way, shape, or form...
Well that doesn't really make any sense. One of the other nominees was a child with cancer. There are lots of children with cancer. Typing that made me feel sick to my stomach, but it's true. :( That doesn't make the experiences and courage of this particular child any less valid. Or less worthy of applause. Trans people go through a lot of terrifying crap. As do people with cancer and military servicemen and women. As I said before, they are all brave. Trying to measure and compare types of bravery is stupid.

And as far as "was she deserving pf an award," don't really care either way. It's really more of a symbolic gesture than anything. It doesn't mean anything, so I don't get why some people (not anyone here) get such a stick up their butt about it.
 

KennedyKiller

Super Saiyan Member
Premium
Well that doesn't really make any sense. One of the other nominees was a child with cancer. There are lots of children with cancer. Typing that made me feel sick to my stomach, but it's true. :( That doesn't make the experiences and courage of this particular child any less valid. Or less worthy of applause. Trans people go through a lot of terrifying crap. As do people with cancer and military servicemen and women. As I said before, they are all brave. Trying to measure and compare types of bravery is stupid.

And as far as "was she deserving pf an award," don't really care either way. It's really more of a symbolic gesture than anything. It doesn't mean anything, so I don't get why some people (not anyone here) get such a stick up their butt about it.
You're right. Transgender people do go through it. But Bruce Jenner got the award because of his prior fame. Not because of the change itself. But because he went from being an athletic super star in the eyes of many, to being the object of disgust in the eyes of many. Oh well. You're rich and famous. You'll be fine. And while I'm stepping on toes, I'll say I feel the same way about Kurt Cobain lol. If actually DID commit suicide, and wasn't killed by Courtney, then he's an @$$hole who should've got over it, and not been so selfish...But I don't mind. I'm not a Nirvana fan...
 

cheezMcNASTY

Entertain me.
Premium
And while I'm stepping on toes, I'll say I feel the same way about Kurt Cobain lol. If actually DID commit suicide, and wasn't killed by Courtney, then he's an @$$hole who should've got over it, and not been so selfish...But I don't mind. I'm not a Nirvana fan...
Kurt Cobain isn't even applicable. He was showered with money and fame he never wanted, was battling severe depression, and self medicating a horrendous stomach condition that was undiagnosed. Lump in that he was married to a succubus and there isn't really any blame left to assign. I agree he should've saught another answer, but people prone to depression can't help how they're wired.

Think what you want about kurt. That's your business but don't lump him in with people who desired their fame and fortune.

El Duche claims she tried to have him kill Kurt... I personally think she drove him to suicide.

Side note: I love KC's thrift store analogy.
 
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La Femme Fatale

The Queen
Moderator
You're right. Transgender people do go through it. But Bruce Jenner got the award because of his prior fame. Not because of the change itself. But because he went from being an athletic super star in the eyes of many, to being the object of disgust in the eyes of many. Oh well. You're rich and famous. You'll be fine. And while I'm stepping on toes, I'll say I feel the same way about Kurt Cobain lol. If actually DID commit suicide, and wasn't killed by Courtney, then he's an @$$hole who should've got over it, and not been so selfish...But I don't mind. I'm not a Nirvana fan...

Bruce Jenner no longer exists. I know the concept of transitioning may make some people uncomfortable, but let's at least try to put some effort towards understanding it. It's really not that difficult.

With regards to the substance of your post, I 100% disagree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jenner never received this particular award before her change so obviously it has much to do with her change (and of course the fact she already has ties to the network through the Diane Sawyer interview). Yes, she's high profile, but there are also hundreds of people more famous than Jenner who have never 'won' either.

But because he went from being an athletic super star in the eyes of many, to being the object of disgust in the eyes of many.
That quote is kind of sickening. Yes, many people don't understand it. But those who find it 'disgusting' deserve nothing but pity.

40% of the young people in the American transgender community have attempted to commit suicide at one point in their lives, which is 9 times higher than the national average. So clearly there are some serious issues that might not seem terribly obvious to those of us who don't struggle with our gender identity. Caitlyn Jenner being the recipient of this award doesn't hurt anyone, but it certainly might help those who struggle with the same thing.
 

Venomous Oddball

Also Known as Maddy
You're right. Transgender people do go through it. But Bruce Jenner got the award because of his prior fame. Not because of the change itself. But because he went from being an athletic super star in the eyes of many, to being the object of disgust in the eyes of many. Oh well. You're rich and famous. You'll be fine. And while I'm stepping on toes, I'll say I feel the same way about Kurt Cobain lol. If actually DID commit suicide, and wasn't killed by Courtney, then he's an @$$hole who should've got over it, and not been so selfish...But I don't mind. I'm not a Nirvana fan...

Just because someone committed suicide doesn't make them a selfish a-hole. You can't always just get over it...
 

KennedyKiller

Super Saiyan Member
Premium
Bruce Jenner no longer exists. I know the concept of transitioning may make some people uncomfortable, but let's at least try to put some effort towards understanding it. It's really not that difficult.

With regards to the substance of your post, I 100% disagree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jenner never received this particular award before her change so obviously it has much to do with her change (and of course the fact she already has ties to the network through the Diane Sawyer interview). Yes, she's high profile, but there are also hundreds of people more famous than Jenner who have never 'won' either.


That quote is kind of sickening. Yes, many people don't understand it. But those who find it 'disgusting' deserve nothing but pity.

40% of the young people in the American transgender community have attempted to commit suicide at one point in their lives, which is 9 times higher than the national average. So clearly there are some serious issues that might not seem terribly obvious to those of us who don't struggle with our gender identity. Caitlyn Jenner being the recipient of this award doesn't hurt anyone, but it certainly might help those who struggle with the same thing.
You're right...That quote is sickening, however, that's the harsh reality of the world. You're going to have those southern yokels that think that what he did is the absolute worst thing in the world, and look at the dude who used to be on their Wheaties box as kids and be disgusted. That's just truth, no matter how sickening it is. That said, I'm sure it's a lot easier for this rich person who has no ties to the people that are disgusted by it to get over it and not let it bother him, than the poor kid who LIVES in the southern town that will be beaten and broken becuase of it. That's my point here. He/She has been famous since the 80's. If that fame never existed, then he/she would have never gotten this award.
 

La Femme Fatale

The Queen
Moderator
You're right...That quote is sickening, however, that's the harsh reality of the world. You're going to have those southern yokels that think that what he did is the absolute worst thing in the world, and look at the dude who used to be on their Wheaties box as kids and be disgusted. That's just truth, no matter how sickening it is.
That's fine. Jenner doesn't seem to care what those folks think anyway - nor should she. They're profoundly ignorant.

That said, I'm sure it's a lot easier for this rich person who has no ties to the people that are disgusted by it to get over it and not let it bother him, than the poor kid who LIVES in the southern town that will be beaten and broken becuase of it. That's my point here. He/She has been famous since the 80's. If that fame never existed, then he/she would have never gotten this award.
I didn't know she was the first famous person to ever win an award, lol. Listen, you don't know that this wasn't a difficult thing for her to do. She's a public figure - she couldn't likely have transitioned privately even if she wanted to. Not unless she chose to go live under a rock for a while - but then that would have hardly helped anyone else who is also struggling with their gender identity.

I just think the whole 'she only got it because she's famous argument' is sort of redundant. Millions of people have only won an award because they're famous - and yet it's rarely been a controversy before. Yes, the other nominees were courageous as well, but if you can't see how Jenner was also courageous then well.. I got nothing for ya. Because it sure isn't difficult for lots of other people to see.
 
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Angel

I make good toast
Admin
Moderator
Premium
Ima jump in here, even though I said I'd keep my mouth shut, and just say that in the months prior to the Diane Sawyer interview where Jenner came out (is that the right terminology? Or should it be something else?), every tabloid, rag and magazine dealing with celebrity showed many photos of Jenner looking distraught and genuinely screwed up by all the media attention courtesy of other people speculating and gossiping about what was going on.

So I would wager Jenner went through considerable stress prior to changing regardless of fame, fortune or status.

Side note edit: yes, suicide is very selfish. But by it's nature, depression makes someone feel as though they are doing the world a favour by dying, so to us (yes, I mean myself and other depressed, suicidal people) it is the most altruistic thing we can think of. Does it make sense? Nope. But when you're in that place it is perfectly logical.
 

La Femme Fatale

The Queen
Moderator
That's a good point - I totally forgot about that. The tabloids were pretty ruthless with Jenner in the months leading up to the Sawyer interview. I imagine it can't be easy transitioning from a man to a woman in private and having to explain it to your family and friends, but on top of that to have thousands of people chasing you around with cameras and writing pretty nasty stuff... I mean, that would be stressful for anybody.

And I don't know what the correct terminology is... I'm guessing 'transitioning' but not entirely sure.
 

Angel

I make good toast
Admin
Moderator
Premium
I recall the photos of Jenner breaking down in the car with really long hair and painted nails, whilst the captions would read something like, "Bruce devastated by sex change rumours"

Even though they weren't rumours, Jenner had the right to bring it into the open on her own terms, if she wanted to do that at all. Just because you're famous doesn't mean you want all your business to be the public's business. I know that as a celebrity you kind of forfeit your right to privacy, but something like this is, I imagine, intensely personal and there were more people involved than just Caitlyn. She has a family after all, and now grandchildren too. It affects everyone.
 
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